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Can I get there again? (Read 1196 times)


Slow-smooth-fast

    I know what you're now looking for here is advice on the most efficient training program for you, and I highly recommend the FIRST book.  You can get it from your local library if you don't want to buy it. 

     

    I did want to weigh in a little here, just as a couple of others have shared their similarities with you.

     

    1. I took my kids to a birthday party across the street a couple of weeks ago, then took an hour long nap before going back to hang out there with them.  Same thing right, I just did the lazy person version.

    2. I don't lie about work, but I've taken my fair share of PTO to get my long run in. 

    3. I don't really think about justifying food, overall you just need to keep a balance of calories in calories out, as opposed to some random day where you overdo it.

     

    You could skip the FIRST approach and hit up Nobby on here for the program he recommends.  Having to follow a program that's recommended may prevent your brain from constantly overworking about what you should be doing differently, or how much harder or slower you should be working at a given time.  It's all right there in front of you. 

     

     

    Sorry but I cant see the FIRST book you are referring to.

     

    Also, Nobby, can you indeed help out here with a 10k plan? Give me some direction as I just need something to stick to instead of just running aimlessly. I once heard that every run you do should have a purpose but for me at the moment this is definitely not the case. You have been a great help in the past so would be grateful for your input.

    "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

    DoppleBock


      This is the main reason for former runners. They don't enjoy running anymore. The trick is to figure out how to make it fun again. For me, its picking a race and committing to a training schedule. That's what gets me out the door.

       

      DW knows that if I don't get my run, I'm crabby. Actually the whole family has come to that realization. I run before everyone gets up, so it doesn't impact their day. Sometimes it does, but as you are seeing its working it into the day that is challenging.

      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

       

        Eddy, I do not recommend FIRST for you. Nobby would not either. First you need to have a goal 10K race and date. If you don't have that, you can't structure a specific training plan to peak effectively. In meantime a general program with 2 work outs per week and a variety of paces to keep you in great condition. Here are staple work outs that keep you close to peak. Focus on effort and not necessarily goal pace.

         

        1. Long run at comfortable pace

         

        2. 10K paced reps like 8 X 800m or 6 X 1K etc with 4 - 6 X 200m fast after. You do these biweekly. The other work out can by 6 x 800m at 5K 

              effort or 10-12 X 1 min at mile pace. Of course warm up and cool down miles around this and work up to the above distances.

         

        3.  Tempo - 3-4 miles at fast tempo pace (30 sec slower than 5K pace) or 5-6 miles at slower tempo pace (marathon pace) or 4-5 X 1 mile at half

              marathon pace (I like vs the continues fast tempo miles) followed by 4 X 200m fast or 8-10 X 100m fast striders

         

        All other days are comfortable paced to allow you to absorb the work outs and get stronger. Note: in offseason or if goal race is not close, you probably don't need the volume of quality above. Off season is for maintaining fitness, building base and keeping in some quality work so when goal race (s) approach, you can ramp up a bit and peak without the speed work being a shock to the body.

        Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

        DoppleBock


          PS I take 1/2 days of vacation to run sometimes - I get more than my wife ... Although I could be getting more projects done around the house.

          http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

          2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

           


          Feeling the growl again

            Sorry but I cant see the FIRST book you are referring to.

             

            Also, Nobby, can you indeed help out here with a 10k plan? Give me some direction as I just need something to stick to instead of just running aimlessly. I once heard that every run you do should have a purpose but for me at the moment this is definitely not the case. You have been a great help in the past so would be grateful for your input.

             

            I'm not Nobby but the "every run should have a purpose" jingle is something I've bandied about so I'll throw out an example for you.

             

            M-off

            T-tempo run 4-6 miles, total volume 7-10 miles with warmup/cooldown

            W-Easy run 5-8 miles

            R-Fartlek or hills, total volume 7-10 miles

            F-off

            Sa-Easy run 5-8 miles

            Su- long run 12-16 miles

            Total volume: 36-52 miles

             

            If this is too much quality make Tuesday your workout day...alternate tempos/fartleks/hills...don't worry about every trying to find time to run more than 16 miles.  That is plenty for a long run if you are not approaching a marathon.  A 16-miler with quality in the last half is a great workout for 10K training.

             

            This is not periodized.....if you have a goal 10K coming up I'd add intervals into the mix....but it's flexible, easy to fit into your life, and will make good progress for you on the 10K.

             

            You can shift the workouts around, just make sure you don't put workouts back-to-back and the space between gives you adequate recovery. 

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             


            Slow-smooth-fast

              I'm not Nobby but the "every run should have a purpose" jingle is something I've bandied about so I'll throw out an example for you.

               

              M-off

              T-tempo run 4-6 miles, total volume 7-10 miles with warmup/cooldown

              W-Easy run 5-8 miles

              R-Fartlek or hills, total volume 7-10 miles

              F-off

              Sa-Easy run 5-8 miles

              Su- long run 12-16 miles

              Total volume: 36-52 miles

               

              If this is too much quality make Tuesday your workout day...alternate tempos/fartleks/hills...don't worry about every trying to find time to run more than 16 miles.  That is plenty for a long run if you are not approaching a marathon.  A 16-miler with quality in the last half is a great workout for 10K training.

               

              This is not periodized.....if you have a goal 10K coming up I'd add intervals into the mix....but it's flexible, easy to fit into your life, and will make good progress for you on the 10K.

               

              You can shift the workouts around, just make sure you don't put workouts back-to-back and the space between gives you adequate recovery. 

               

              Sounds good, I will give it a go and see how I do. I need to pick a 10k, what kind of time period do you think I ought to give myself to test a 10k with this sort of plan? 10k by xmas perhaps?

              "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                I'm not Nobby but the "every run should have a purpose" jingle is something I've bandied about so I'll throw out an example for you. 

                To me, at least, the purpose of some runs is to reconnect with the joy of just running.

                 

                As for motivation: I'd agree with picking a race and having a target for your training.  Can you schedule a run or two each week with running mates?  I know your schedule is hectic (as is mine), but hopefully you can find one time slot for consistent running and companionship.

                 

                On the topic of specific things to sharpen you for a sub-40: don't look at me.  I'm not that fast or smart.

                “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                  Sounds good, I will give it a go and see how I do. I need to pick a 10k, what kind of time period do you think I ought to give myself to test a 10k with this sort of plan? 10k by xmas perhaps?

                   

                  You could test a 10k as soon as this weekend as a baseline, run one mid November and then run another in late December to measure your improvement based on your training.  Finishing a 10k and recovering from it doesn't take the same kind of commitment as a marathon so there's nothing to stop you from running more than one per season.

                   

                  If you race a 5k and a 10k in the near future those times would be good data to help figure out what training plan you need to get <40 for the 10k and how close you are right now (PRs aren't as good for predicting race performance as recent race performances are).

                   

                  For example if you're running <19:00 for the 5k and >42:00 for the 10k your training needs to focus on your longer runs so that your pace doesn't degrade as much but if you're running ~20:00 for the 5k and ~41:00 for the 10k your focus needs to be more on the intervals.


                  Just a dude.

                    Eddy, you probably don't realize this, but you have been providing me with some motivation... 

                     

                    It's kinda silly, but you and I are pretty close for the yearly total... I've been chasing you down on the 1500 miles in a year YTD chart, and just recently caught you as you started missing a couple days.  Probably not the healthiest thing in the world, but thank you anyway...

                     

                    Smile

                     

                    I'd recommend doing some different things... Run somewhere you never have before... Do runs that are just explorations... drive to a different town or park or hill or whatever... change it up... find some enjoyment.  You will probably slowly get better even just running easy every day.  When you feel like it, crank out some quick miles.  If you bring some freshness back to your running, you will probably feel like it more often...

                     

                    -Kelly

                    Getting back in shape... Just need it to be a skinnier shape... 

                      Here is how I am feeling: After my 9 months layoff I was itching to get back to running and it has been going well. I started logging my miles on here again after a few months of easy running. I was running initially for weight loss and even though I am not at my racing weight just yet, I am happy as I have lost the pounds again.

                       

                      My issue is with what to do next. I feel that I have found it difficult lately to find the motivation to 'get in the miles'. The birth of my 2nd daughter and hence sleepless nights are certainly a contributory factor. I still have managed however to run as much as I can, though it seems to have become a chore. I am trying to get back to my former race fitness, sub 40 10k and so have been running >50mpw for about 3months now (ran by feel, variable paces), though lately with fatigue it is becoming more and more difficult. I have found that the obsessive side of me has started to rear its ugly head again and it is beginning to take over.

                       

                      Here are a few examples that illustrate how running is becoming a little obsessive for me. 1. I took my daughter to a birthday party and instead of staying I went for a run, then came back to pick her up. 2. I lied about my work finishing time just so I could run 15 miles home from work 3. I ran 15 miles last Sat to justify the pizza I had the night before. My head is running, running, running and I need to chill and sort this out. I am always thinking of ways to get in more miles, the more the better I keep thinking, but evidently it is driving me mad and my partner. I need some direction. I am not sure where to go from here. I think ultimately I need to cut my mileage to start to feel better and do some race specific training, but then as soon as I think about doing this, there is a voice in my head which says, "No, you need to run more miles".

                       

                      Have I got the base to lower my miles now and do more race specific runs? I have started doing some 'speedier' work, a few fartleks, and I did cruise intervals this week, but I am wondering aimlessly and seem to have lost all focus about what it is I want. Here is what I wan - to get under 40m again for the 10k, without burning myself out, thus cutting my weekly mileage and obsession with long runs. Help and advice welcome.

                      Eddie:

                       

                      I received your Personal Message which is the exact duplicate of your post here.  I don't know if you wrote to me first and decided to ask the exact same thing to the rest of the world or you've written this post first and decided to throw the exact same question to me might as well.  Either way, I feel your question has been answered by many of the contributors here and certainly it is apparent that you didn't need my specific attentnion anyway.

                       

                      I had a pressing project in the last couple of nights and I had been up very late.  Last night, at about 3AM, I became all of a sudden aware that I owed a message to some of the RA people here and, though very brief and quick, sent them an e-mail.  I try to contribute though lately has been a bit sporadic and I feel bad.  Arthur Lydiard used to say that helping other runners is like spending a part of your life for them.  I try to carry on that message and it has been very gratifying to see some people, off and on RA, doing quite well with my modest advice.  I usually tell people that I don't really coach because this is, to me, nothing like real "coaching" but I'm hoping to change this soon and hopefully I can settle things in my life a bit and do a little more "hands-on" coaching. 

                       

                      Lydiard used to coach me by correspondence.  I would write a letter to him and, of course, it would take 3 or 4 weeks for the letter to get to New Zealand.  He used to come to the US and he would write to me because it's quicker.  I have a hand-written letter from him in one of the hotels in Chicago.  He took time from his busy schedule to hand-write a letter for me and it means a lot to me.  The advancement of technology is incredible lately and, with a touch of a button, you can reach out to the world instantly.  Maybe I'm being old but, with that, perhaps our appreciation has gone down, or vanished all together.  Maybe I AM old now but, just last week, I actually poited that out to some people; I posted a message at infamous letsrun.com message board about application of Lydiard training.  Within hours, I received a dozen e-mails asking this information.  I actually hesitated a bit because I had a bad experience there before but, nevertheless, I created a PDF file of that and sent it to them.  Out of dozen, only one replied and thanked me.  So I sorta bitched about it, sending an e-mail saying, basically, a simple "thank-you" would have been nice.  With that, 3 responded.  Still only 3.  It is quite amazing, everything is so easy nowadays.  But they simply don't care as much.  They don't care, they wouldn't treasure that--be it information or object. 

                       

                      So, being an old fart as I am, going on and on and on about something completely irrelevant but here's what I can say to you.  You certainly didn't even be bothered to write to me personally; you just simply copied and pasted it and click "send".  You might have sent out the same message to a couple of dozen people for all I know and I happened to be one of them.  You seem to have gotten many advices, some completely contradicting but you got some attention, some information and, as far as I'm concerned, you've got what you wanted.  I don't think you need anything from me; I have sent you some information about hill training, perhaps some other stuff as well but I'm not sure if you even utilized anything out of it because I never found out whether it worked or not worked or whether or not you even tried that or not.  In short, you are a perfect cyber child and, frankly, coach's nightmaire.  All I might have advised to you are actually pretty much out there in the same cyber world and you can probably obtain it with a click of a button.  I don't think you need anything from me.  Congratulations to your second girl being born.  Hope you can teach them a little bit about "value" in life.


                      Slow-smooth-fast

                        Eddy, you probably don't realize this, but you have been providing me with some motivation... 

                         

                        It's kinda silly, but you and I are pretty close for the yearly total... I've been chasing you down on the 1500 miles in a year YTD chart, and just recently caught you as you started missing a couple days.  Probably not the healthiest thing in the world, but thank you anyway...

                         

                        Smile

                         

                        I'd recommend doing some different things... Run somewhere you never have before... Do runs that are just explorations... drive to a different town or park or hill or whatever... change it up... find some enjoyment.  You will probably slowly get better even just running easy every day.  When you feel like it, crank out some quick miles.  If you bring some freshness back to your running, you will probably feel like it more often...

                         

                        -Kelly

                         

                        Glad I have helped motivate you, bear in mind I have only jut started logging my miles againWink

                         

                        Eddie:

                         

                        I received your Personal Message which is the exact duplicate of your post here.  I don't know if you wrote to me first and decided to ask the exact same thing to the rest of the world or you've written this post first and decided to throw the exact same question to me might as well.  Either way, I feel your question has been answered by many of the contributors here and certainly it is apparent that you didn't need my specific attentnion anyway.

                         

                        I had a pressing project in the last couple of nights and I had been up very late.  Last night, at about 3AM, I became all of a sudden aware that I owed a message to some of the RA people here and, though very brief and quick, sent them an e-mail.  I try to contribute though lately has been a bit sporadic and I feel bad.  Arthur Lydiard used to say that helping other runners is like spending a part of your life for them.  I try to carry on that message and it has been very gratifying to see some people, off and on RA, doing quite well with my modest advice.  I usually tell people that I don't really coach because this is, to me, nothing like real "coaching" but I'm hoping to change this soon and hopefully I can settle things in my life a bit and do a little more "hands-on" coaching. 

                         

                        Lydiard used to coach me by correspondence.  I would write a letter to him and, of course, it would take 3 or 4 weeks for the letter to get to New Zealand.  He used to come to the US and he would write to me because it's quicker.  I have a hand-written letter from him in one of the hotels in Chicago.  He took time from his busy schedule to hand-write a letter for me and it means a lot to me.  The advancement of technology is incredible lately and, with a touch of a button, you can reach out to the world instantly.  Maybe I'm being old but, with that, perhaps our appreciation has gone down, or vanished all together.  Maybe I AM old now but, just last week, I actually poited that out to some people; I posted a message at infamous letsrun.com message board about application of Lydiard training.  Within hours, I received a dozen e-mails asking this information.  I actually hesitated a bit because I had a bad experience there before but, nevertheless, I created a PDF file of that and sent it to them.  Out of dozen, only one replied and thanked me.  So I sorta bitched about it, sending an e-mail saying, basically, a simple "thank-you" would have been nice.  With that, 3 responded.  Still only 3.  It is quite amazing, everything is so easy nowadays.  But they simply don't care as much.  They don't care, they wouldn't treasure that--be it information or object. 

                         

                        So, being an old fart as I am, going on and on and on about something completely irrelevant but here's what I can say to you.  You certainly didn't even be bothered to write to me personally; you just simply copied and pasted it and click "send".  You might have sent out the same message to a couple of dozen people for all I know and I happened to be one of them.  You seem to have gotten many advices, some completely contradicting but you got some attention, some information and, as far as I'm concerned, you've got what you wanted.  I don't think you need anything from me; I have sent you some information about hill training, perhaps some other stuff as well but I'm not sure if you even utilized anything out of it because I never found out whether it worked or not worked or whether or not you even tried that or not.  In short, you are a perfect cyber child and, frankly, coach's nightmaire.  All I might have advised to you are actually pretty much out there in the same cyber world and you can probably obtain it with a click of a button.  I don't think you need anything from me.  Congratulations to your second girl being born.  Hope you can teach them a little bit about "value" in life.

                         

                        Nobby, I see that I have upset you, and it has upset me that I have upset you. I dont want to befriend anyone and have always taken your advice with the respect it deserves. I am deeplly sorry for sending you a due msg, suppose it was just a way for me to get a guaranteed response from you as I love to see wht you have to say.

                         

                        I always listen to what you have to say and respect you wholly. I am sorry for any offence I have caused.

                        "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


                        Slow-smooth-fast

                          I am going to do my first 10k next sun, in fact, my first race of the year. Any thoughts on what to do from tommorrow? I was scheduling a 16 miler, though worry whether or not I need to taper?

                           

                          Any thoughts guys of the week leading up?

                          "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                            I would not taper so much in mileage but in intensity especially 4-5 days leading to race. 16 miles is aggressive on week of race if doing 50 mile weeks. I would rather you do 12-13 miles with some tempo miles in it tomorrow. A bit more bang for your buck.   Maybe Tues or Wed, throw in a few 800m intervals at 5K pace and 4 X 200m fast in a mid week longer run to sharpen you up. Don't overdue this work out but just to get some life in legs. Other days easy running. Maybe some striders in your run on Friday or Saturday and of course not crazy miles Friday or Saturday.

                            Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


                            Slow-smooth-fast

                              I would not taper so much in mileage but in intensity especially 4-5 days leading to race. 16 miles is aggressive on week of race if doing 50 mile weeks. I would rather you do 12-13 miles with some tempo miles in it tomorrow. A bit more bang for your buck.   Maybe Tues or Wed, throw in a few 800m intervals at 5K pace and 4 X 200m fast in a mid week longer run to sharpen you up. Don't overdue this work out but just to get some life in legs. Other days easy running. Maybe some striders in your run on Friday or Saturday and of course not crazy miles Friday or Saturday.

                               Appreciate it Tchuck. Thanks for the advice. Will cut the long one tommorrow. Hope the few beers tonight wont affect me.Joking

                              "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                                Tchuck's plan sounds good to me...if you're going to take a rest day between now and then do it on Friday, not Saturday.  You want a short, slow run (3-5 miles), maybe with some strides the day before the race so you don't feel rusty at the start of the 10k.

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