Lactate Threshold (Read 433 times)

jackdyl11


    While I'm a numbers dork that wears a HR monitor, I have to agree with Spaniel on this one, especially for a new runner.  Just go run for 20-30 minutes at a pace you think you could race for about an hour.  I don't think it matters much if you're at 88.4% or 92.3% MHR, especially since I think it is beneficial to do some runs a little below LT and some a little above.  And even more especially because everyone's LT is going to be in a different place.

     

    That being said I wanted to chime in as an example of someone who has an LT % MHR in the low 90's - I had an incremental treadmill test done that measured my MHR at 203 and my LT between 182 and 186 (90%-92%).  I usually go for 4-5 miles (last tempo was 4 at about 183 average).  My last progression run included 12 miles at ~179, so about 88%.  I probably have higher than average zones, but that just goes to show that everyone is different and you can't apply a simple % of MHR rule to figure out your LT HR.

    J-L-C



      No offense intended to those who use HRMs and feel they add value to their training, but IMHO HRMs are one of the worst things to happen to newer runners.  Too much data of the wrong kind; this thread is like watching a school of red herrings swim by.

       

      Agreed.


      Finally PRed!!!

        Yeah, I have to say, I'm kind of glad I first started running back in the 70s when we really didn't have all that stuff to worry about. Agreed that for new runners, keeping it simple can be best.

        PRs: 5K: 22:09, 10K:44:55, 15K: 1:10:35, HM: 1:42:49, M: 3:32:09

          TL*;DR

           

          *Way too many numbers and percentages in this thread.

           

          No offense intended to those who use HRMs and feel they add value to their training, but IMHO HRMs are one of the worst things to happen to newer runners.  Too much data of the wrong kind; this thread is like watching a school of red herrings swim by.

           

          Eh, ya gotta start somewhere.  If you are fairly new to running, you probably haven't done any hour long races.   I think it is a pretty good tool for comparing your fitness over a training cycle, and demonstrating a trend.  The idea that i could bring my HR to 90%, 91%,, 92%, and then just hold that effort for 20-40 minutes in a training run or 1 hour in a race, just seems nuts to me.


          Feeling the growl again

             

            Eh, ya gotta start somewhere. 

             

            Yup....by lacing up your shoes, getting out the door, and running at a pace where you can easily carry a conversation.  Smile

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             


            I've got a fever...

              Classic Malmo:

               

              The only numbers that matter are the ones that you receive at the end of the race. The most important of these is called place, and is represented as an ordinal. A '1' is the best indicator of your performance. If you get a '1' then you've done excellent. It's no small coincidence that '1' is a homophone for 'won'. Other excellent numbers to receive are '2' and '3'. Not nearly as good as a '1', but by tradition and convention the numbers '1', '2' and '3' are deemed to be the 'supreme ordinals'; that is to say, worthy of gold, silver and bronze, and are segregated from the other ordinals. The rest of the ordinals are represented by the formula: n + 1...(to infinity). There is a direct, inverse relationship between ordinal value and its worth. The closer to the supreme ordinals, the better you've done, the closer to infinity, the worse you've done.

              One of the other numbers that matters much more than [VO2 Max / lactate threshold, etc] is time. Time is always secondary to place in it's value. Neither place nor time are given in the gerbil-wheel lab tests conducted by the exercise-physio-geeks. You will only receive them in the experiment that the real experts call competition. Time does not supersede place, but it is a way of comparing the place of two or more experiments from different venues and eras.


              On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                It's amazing humans ever learned to run, or how fast to run, without technology...nearly impossible.

                  Yeah, I have to say, I'm kind of glad I first started running back in the 70s when we really didn't have all that stuff to worry about. Agreed that for new runners, keeping it simple can be best.

                  Yep. Didn't even know races existed then other than Boston, Olympics, and some mountain races in Colorado. My soccer shoes (hockey shoes wore out, couldn't find softball shoes) left over from hs field hockey and softball worked just fine to run around the college athletic complex. (didn't have intercollegiate athletic teams where I went to school pre-Title IX and no running teams in hs) Cotton sweats when it was cooler. Never considered logging any runs cuz I'd never heard of such a thing. And 20 min was a long run - cuz that's what our basketball coach had us do - run until you can't run any longer (around a half-court jr hi gym) or she blew the whistle. Time a run - why not just go out to a landmark and back - or use kitchen clock.

                   

                  Strange as it seems, having one gadget to log all my numbers and plop them in a log is a fairly simple way of keeping a log - at least for ex-math majors. Wink   And allows me the freedom to just run. It automatically keeps track of intensity in fartleks, hills, whatever.

                   

                  I'm happy lacing up my shoes (and traction devices and whatever else), going out running on the trails for a couple hours or more, and coming back and just downloading my gizmo, documenting trail conditions and any aches/pains (used to have AT issues) and writing down what shoes I wore.

                   

                  It's only some of these convoluted threads where it seems complex. Wink

                  "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                  JimR


                    Yabut if you just run, you're stealing the opportunity for people to say these gadgets can 'optimize your training', you can 'improve more efficiently', analyze your history, all those promises of how much better you will be WITH those gadgets than WITHOUT.  It's all about the promise.

                     

                    And, if you call within the next 20 minutes, because we can't do this all day folks...


                    Feeling the growl again

                       Cotton sweats when it was cooler. 

                       

                      I still remember my first winter run in a non-cotton shirt.  It was a mind-altering experience.  Now THAT is technology you can take to the bank.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        I did not read the whole string ~ Likley to have it tested by a professional using testing strips and a finger poke for blood.

                         

                        I am currently fat and out of shape, so I was trying to figure out what my workout ranges were on the TM last night.  I was doing 5 minute intervals with complete recover (running easy pace for 5 minutes).  I started at something I assumed would be comfortably hard and increase .1 mph each rep until I hit a pace that felt hard, but manageable.  I think I could have managed 2 more reps (.2 more MPH) and still not been straining.

                         

                        Starting was at 6:40 ending at 6:18

                         

                        Just from the feel of it, I would say my LT pace is between 6:30-6:35

                         

                        I was also looking for my CV pace (30 minute race pace) ~ It felt like 6:18

                         

                        That would put my 5k pace bewteen 6:06-6:09

                         

                        The thing about those paces ~ Depending on how much sleep, recovery from last workout, what I ate or drank or just that particular day, they can vary pretty easily by 5-10 seconds.  So I do not get too hung up on exact pace.

                         

                        If I am doing 20 minutes @ LAT and at the end I do not feel like I could do another 10 minutes if I had too, I know I ran it too hard.

                         

                        But I also have had workouts that feel really hard in the beginning - middle and end, but I feel like I could have continued at the pace for longer.

                         

                        Sometimes I run too hard, sometimes not hard enough and many times I get it just right - In the end it is all good.

                         

                        What is the best way to determine what your current Lactate Threshold is?

                        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                         

                          It's amazing humans ever learned to run, or how fast to run, without technology...nearly impossible.

                           

                          Of course you are not learning to run, that box is checked somewhere around the age of two.  You are learning to finish in first place or did you not read the post above yours?

                           

                          Can you get better without a HRM, without a watch of any kind?  Sure you can.  No doubt some runners can improve juat running on feel.  No doubt Spaniel could stuff himself with Tastykakes, bourbon and pork ribs every day for a year while chain smoking, and still get up off the couch and beat me like I owed him money.  It doesn't mean that a hrm is not a useful tool for someone else simply because you are cool enough to accomplish as much or more doing it the Jedi way.

                           

                          Some of you sound like grumpy old men, reminiscing about the good old days bemoaning technology as if it makes running less authentic.   You can have that 70's nostalgia all to yourself.  Short shorts, cotton tube socks, Keds, bad hair and a lot fewer runners....

                          JimR


                            I like it when people use strawman rhetoric such as 'Jedi way', 'grumpy old men', 'you are cool' and so on.  It just seems so warm and fuzzy to hear.

                            DoppleBock


                              I can be a very useful tool and it can be counter productive depending on how one uses it.

                               

                              There is a gal at work that could not run for over 3 weeks because her garmin died and she had not replaced it yet.

                               

                              I might benefit from using a HRM or Garmin, but it does not fit my personality and it would make running unbearable.

                               

                              I do think everyone should learn to listen to their bodies and what each effort level feels like.  But I also know that some people thrive with technology and information.

                               

                              .  It doesn't mean that a hrm is not a useful tool for someone else simply because you are cool enough to accomplish as much or more doing it the Jedi way.

                               

                              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                               


                              Feeling the growl again

                                 

                                 simply because you are cool enough to accomplish as much or more doing it the Jedi way.

                                 

                                Some of you sound like grumpy old men, reminiscing about the good old days bemoaning technology as if it makes running less authentic.  

                                 

                                #1, that is not what we are saying.  I have very specific reasons I don't like new runners relying on HRMs...I was also specific to new runners... and it has nothing to do with my age or how much I dislike people on my lawn eyeing my Grand Torino.  To make a long explanation very short, new runners tend to get too focused on the (mostly useless) data, expending energy and frustration on things that are often more counter-productive than beneficial.  By the time you know enough to use a HRM correctly, ironically, you probably know enough about yourself not to need it for most runs anymore.  It also makes it frustrating to train the new runner because they think they need everything translated into complex percentages and zones for them just to get them to do a freaking easy run.

                                 

                                It's not that it's less genuine, it's that it confuses very simple concepts and makes it harder to teach people to train themselves.

                                 

                                #2, if you look back to my original post I said I meant no disrespect to those that used a HRM and felt it was a useful tool to them...and I meant it.  People can thrive off different training methods.  I can't say the conversation is moved forward with such hyperbole as used above, however.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand