Wow if you're playing "stump the swamp" I think you might have won. Two minutes off your current best 5k time in just about a month after a few weeks of little to no running because of an injured foot?

It might be impossible. If you're okay with that and want to give it a go anyway I'd say your only hope is to ramp mileage AND intensity right now. This is the opposite of what I'd normally say but yours is an extreme case. So run at least 35 mpw including a long run of about 12 with a fast finish and a mid week workout of 6 x 800m at current 5k pace with 400m recovery jogs. If you hold together you'll probably see some significant improvement over your last 5k. I sure can't promise 2 minutes though. Good luck.

Quote from PowerOfQ on 5/31/2008 at 6:28 PM:
I would say pick it up for the last 2-4 miles. It doesn't have to be any exact pace or anything specific. I just mean run easy for the first 3/4 or so and then start to open it up a bit. Kind of a "smell the barn" tempo.

Quote from mikeymike on 5/31/2008 at 6:03 PM:

I thought the same thing.

I only slightly disagree with Mikey on a small point. I think you need to run your 800's quicker than current 5k pace. I would run them at target or goal 5k pace or even a little bit faster.

Your last 5k was 22:55, 7:24 per mile, 3:41 800's. I personally don't think running 800's on 3:41 is going to make you much faster. You need to get used to running at your goal pace or faster.

Your goal 5k time is 20:55, that equates to 6:45 per mile pace. That puts your 800's at 3:22, which is how fast I would run them or maybe a little bit faster.

I have always ran 400's, 800's, etc faster than 5k pace. For example, if my 5k pace is 6:00, that's 3:00 for an 800, or 1:30 per 400. But in an interval workout I would likely run my 800's at 5:45 pace (2:52) and my 400's a little faster at like 5:35 pace (1:24).

Holding exact pace can be tricky. You might need to look at your watch every 200m. So however fast you decide to run them, do the math ahead of time so you know where you need to be as you progress through the work interval. It sucks when you finish the work interval and you either went too fast (and thus might not be able to do the entire workout at the planned pace) or you did it too slow.

A work around to this is to do it on a treadmill.

While it is true you must run longer to run faster, you must also train faster (some times) to race faster. And given your time crunch and ambitious goal, you're going to need to be aggressive.

Quote from mikeymike on 6/1/2008 at 12:12 AM:

It was my suggestion that he train at goal race pace in this case due to the short amount of time he has to try to chip off 2 minutes of a 5k, which is a lofty goal.

I think he needs to feel that speed and the intensity it requires to achieve that pace. His goal is over 30 seconds faster than his 5k PR. He does not have a huge base and very little speed work.

My training paces are always based on current or recent race times, not goal paces. In fact I didn't even know it was conventional wisdom until I read what you wrote. FWIW, Daniels uses current or recent race times in calculating training paces. In my case, goals are set off of current fitness anyway. If you're in tune to how you're training you should be able to predict pretty accurately how you will race. All things being equal, those pace calculators and race time estimators are scary accurate. I have never attempted what he is trying to do. I don't know if it's even possible.

I may not have correctly articulated my thoughts or I may be incorrect.

But chopping almost 45 seconds per mile off of 5k pace in one month requires a change in process IMO. I
agree he needs to increase volume too.

Quote from mikeymike on 6/1/2008 at 12:12 AM:

Exactly. That was what I was trying to explain.

MTA: No matter what I still believe you run 400's, 800's, etc faster than current 5k pace as I outlined above. In other words, if current 5k pace is 6:00, I would run 800's faster than 3:00. But as far as I am concerned this is not the same as a goal pace.

Those aren't Yassos.

I was glancing through Noakes the other day looking for something completely unrelated. I remember seeing a graph though, that indicated one needs about 6 weeks of sharpening to peak. I think that if you hold up through mikeymike's mini schedule you'll be close to your best.

I was amazed at how much pace 6-8 weeks of sharpening added to my race times this year. I'll give you a vote of confidence and tell you that I think it's possible. Good Luck

I'm pretty much going to call any 800 repeat workout Yasso's, especially when I am half tweaked. Jack Daniels came over last night and we had a long talk.