The day I'm done training for something is probably the beginning of the end of running for me. I doubt I'm all that unusual, particularly among those who were not runners early in life. I've discussed this before, so my apologies to those who have heard it.
Good post. I strongly agree. I hate to think about the time when there is no longer a chance to PR. Like L Train (and maybe I'm worse), I am so disgustingly competitive that I'll probably move on to something else.
Interval Junkie --Nobby
But as far as body over brain, if I consistently listened to my body, I'd consistently be sedentary. I think that's why I'm log-centric and so desperately hold onto goal races and training plans and the like. It's also why I have these little "rivalries" with other people, even if it's all just in my little head. I need that thing for my brain to grab onto as to the reason to tell my body to do what I want it to do. The day I'm done training for something is probably the beginning of the end of running for me. I doubt I'm all that unusual, particularly among those who were not runners early in life. I've discussed this before, so my apologies to those who have heard it.
Clearly, I'm a member of this club. What kind of donuts should I bring to the next meeting?
2013 Goals: 18:49 5K • 1:25 HM • sub-3 Marathon • run lots of races
Current Status 5/13: challenging my Achilles issue -- building some base
I guess I've generally done what I sense a lot of people do.
Yeah of course, it makes sense to look at the training of people who have had success and see what they are doing in big picture sense. But once you get into your training, the only thing that really matters is how your body is reacting to that training, right?
If you want to talk big picture then the following observations hold pretty true (with some exceptions of course) across large poplulations of high end hobby joggers:
1. The fast people run more than the slow people,
2. The fast people keep their easy days easy and their hard days hard.
The other problem with comparing logs with other swampers is that none of us are very good. This isn't a bad thing by the way--we are just mostly a bunch of people for whom running is not the 1st or 2nd or 3rd most important thing in our lives. We are all running so far from our potential that it is not always possible to isolate good training from individual differences. So if you look at one or two people's training over a short period of time it is really easy to come up with a red herring.
I feel like this is a conversation you and I would have had like 4 years ago (hung over, at brunch at my sister's wedding for example.) I get why you're asking these questions at this point--it sucks trying to come back from being out of shape, trying to get down to race weight and get back into a rhythm of good training and get that confidence back, knowing how hard it was to get to the point you were at the last time and knowing that none of your PRs are cookies anymore, especially on this side of 40. I'm living it. But you have to keep the faith and keep on pressing on. You know what you're doing. You've proven it and you can do it again.
Runners run.
I guess I've generally done what I sense a lot of people do. First, get a sense of what some of the key factors are in getting better. Clearly the low hanging fruit for most of us is run more easy miles. Then when you have your base, build your tempos and speedwork or whatnot, race more often and learn how to peak for races. After a while you take a look around and see some of the people that are sort of in your general area, but maybe a bit better than you (or who have progressed further) and say "what are they doing or what have they done that I'm not doing or that I did not do? Can I learn from what they are doing and maybe add something I'm missing?" Granted, we're all an experiment of one and all. But as far as body over brain, if I consistently listened to my body, I'd consistently be sedentary. I think that's why I'm log-centric and so desperately hold onto goal races and training plans and the like. It's also why I have these little "rivalries" with other people, even if it's all just in my little head. I need that thing for my brain to grab onto as to the reason to tell my body to do what I want it to do. The day I'm done training for something is probably the beginning of the end of running for me. I doubt I'm all that unusual, particularly among those who were not runners early in life. I've discussed this before, so my apologies to those who have heard it. Candice, I don't compare my log to yours, that's silly. You are in a different place than me, and that's good for you. But I do look at it, because there's a lot of good stuff in there, especially when you are actually in training. It just struck me over the last several weeks how both you and Nads were running lots of easy miles that I would call almost tempo, and I wondered whether it was a conscious choice or not. .
I guess I've generally done what I sense a lot of people do. First, get a sense of what some of the key factors are in getting better. Clearly the low hanging fruit for most of us is run more easy miles. Then when you have your base, build your tempos and speedwork or whatnot, race more often and learn how to peak for races.
After a while you take a look around and see some of the people that are sort of in your general area, but maybe a bit better than you (or who have progressed further) and say "what are they doing or what have they done that I'm not doing or that I did not do? Can I learn from what they are doing and maybe add something I'm missing?" Granted, we're all an experiment of one and all.
Candice, I don't compare my log to yours, that's silly. You are in a different place than me, and that's good for you. But I do look at it, because there's a lot of good stuff in there, especially when you are actually in training. It just struck me over the last several weeks how both you and Nads were running lots of easy miles that I would call almost tempo, and I wondered whether it was a conscious choice or not. .
I don't even know why you are saying "Candice and Nader." Our training is so different. I don't mean this in any humble sense. I do not run my easy days at 7:20 or 7:40 or what have you. I could not be less bothered by that. In fact, last night (or I dunno know when, I am losing track) I think my easy run came out to 8:45.
I also don't read people's logs too much (Well I scroll for funny stories, but not really for numbers). I really, really think this is the best part of Mikey's advice. You tend to zero in on things. Like, forgive me, the other night you fretted over gaining two pounds from the day before. Man, I go up and down five pounds from one day to the next. Why not weigh yourself once a week? I am all for losing the weight you think you need to lose, but there comes a time in your training cycle(s) where, if you try hard to hit hard workouts and lose weight, you are gonna break.
Not to deflate the rivalry or whatever, but you are really an excellent athlete. Get out of your way and let it happen.
If you want to talk big picture then the following observations hold pretty true (with some exceptions of course) across large poplulations of high end hobby joggers: 1. The fast people run more than the slow people, 2. The fast people keep their easy days easy and their hard days hard.
So simple and so true
Yep.
I hate to think about the time when there is no longer a chance to PR. Like L Train (and maybe I'm worse), I am so disgustingly competitive that I'll probably move on to something else.
If you actually like running, you'll still run. I felt this same way 20 years ago, and generally felt a little sorry for all the tragic 40/50-somethings years past their true PRs. But if you love running, your goals constantly change to keep it competitive and fun until you're dead.
42,500 Miles Later
"run" "to" "eat"
If you actually like running, you'll still run.
i sense that's the heart of mr train's angst -- he doesn't really like to run. it's a means to an end (overall health) or an outlet for competition, but he doesn't really like running.
i find the sunshine beckons me to open up the gate and dream and dream ~~robbie williams
To Corland, L Train, Candice and all us others who no matter what we say or think our PB/PRs are done for think at risk of coming to an end...when the gun goes off, we still go after it. On that note, I'm just biding my 1/2 ass fitness level and working on getting through this injury so I can run on endorphins again and even drink diet coke if I want to push the envelop. Train on friends! We're not dead yet.
In it for the long run..
This.
"It's not who wins the workout..." This Century PRs 5K 25:05 10K 52:34 1/2 M 1:53:58 Marathon 4:08:28
Fast is better than long
I so agree with this. On maybe 10 runs in my entire life have I enjoyed it for just the run. I just want to compete, I need to learn who I compete against. While I am in the upper percentiles for my age, I choose to battle with youngins. I really should learn to get old, but I so don't wanna.
2013 Goals: 2500 miles / 2:45 marathon? / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16 5K / sub hour 10 miles
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
What in the Jehu?
I figure when i'm a granny, i'll just try to beat all the other grannies. And of course... all the young people who suck.
How do you keep your feet on the ground, when you know you were born to fly?
break'n three
Not in Chicago
Cut the whole post for space.
Agreed on all of this, and yeah, getting back in race shape is daunting. The good thing though, is that I was never so fast or in shape that it is really all that unattainable to get there again. That's the good news about being pretty mediocre to begin with.
I think the original question has gotten blown out of proportion a little. I wasn't really questioning whether running easy runs harder was some sort of magic key to success. I just wondered if it was a piece of the puzzle. I think that's been asked and answered - most seem to agree that the pace of easy runs is about the last thing to be consciously messing with. That's what I've always thought and I guess I don't have to ask it again.
I probably pay too much attention to other people. It used to help me figure things out, and I think it was really good for gathering a ton of info and sifting through it. By now, though, you are right - I know at least 95% of what works for me and what I need to do.
Nads, I write all kinds of weird shit in my log. Usually it's just what's on my mind. I'm fixated on my weight right now so that's what comes out. The way my brain works, though, is that if I don't focus on it, it won't happen. The last 3-4 years show this.
OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
You suck. You should just quit. Jackass. Welcome back.
I don't really have angst. I've had it about running, but right now I'm not in that place. Things are actually looking up for my running, so it's sort of weird that this whole topic has become what it has.
I love a lot of what running does for me. I hate a few things that running does to me. I like my real life running friends. I like some of you fake internet people.
But yeah, I don't love running. I've said that before, too.
I certianly didn't mean to come across as insultive to anyone who might be beyond a PR. I hope you're right...
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