It doesn't sound awful - I thought the same thing.  Then again, Jeff gave another perspective.

EP hippies are good at that.

 

I have never done a 4-5 mile tempo run at my HM pace.  I doubt I could do it.  My HM pace is 6:08, and for me to go out and run 4-5 miles of that during a regular training week would be a race effort.  That is going to break me down more than build me up.  Save the race efforts for the races. 

I do not doubt that you could do it.  If you can for 13,  you should be able to for a third of it. 

I found 4-5 to be hard distance to run HM.  I feel like I should be going faster and it should feel easier, but it never does.  It gets worse when MP approaches HM.  Where is the variance for the recovery? 

I've tried to tackle this problem with the same ideas Landy tried going for the 4 min mile. Run the pace more often at smaller distances until the distance can improve.  I remember reading about his 1/2 mile, then 3/4 mile runs in the park as he approached 2:00, then 3:00 minutes.  A lot of failure, but persistence in the effort.   These, of course, would be more sharpening exercises, but I don't believe them to be enough of a burden in a week to ruin normal workouts (longer, slightly slower tempos and intervals).  They are just beginning efforts until the second phase of long, hard workouts approach prior to the marathon.

 

4-5 miles at HM is not a race effort. 13.1 miles at HM is a race effort.

 The 13.1 is at the end of a training cycle and I'm tapered for it.  The tempo run would be in the midst of my training with a 10+ mile day both before and after it.  It does change the effort level.  If you wore a HR monitor you'd probably see about the same level of effort on the tempo run as you would on the HM. 

 

Sure, the effort level is probably about the same.  But you're doing it for about a third of the distance, which shouldn't leave you as wasted as doing the full distance.  I think that's what Jeff is getting at.

agreed.  I've come to the realization that there are hard and easy days, but hard days cannot be ignored or must be substituted with even more miles (30-50/week).  Skip the tempo or harder runs and doom oneself to 4-6 more hrs of running.  Of course, the beauty would be to have the time to do both. 

 

Generally, the longer the interval, the shorter the rest. When I run 1000's, I usually jog 200m, which takes me about a minute. I'm not too strict on rest. It's vague, but you get into the rhythm of the workout and you know when you need to go.

 I tend to make it even laps or 1/2 laps of the track.  Oh well, the last time I ran 800's was when my first hamstring snap occurred.  I have fear of "speed".  I tried to overcome it in a 5K and reinjured.  I have more fear of "speed".  Fuckity. 

I do find tempo easier than tempo intervals also. 

Scout - I like unintentional progressions a lot. Same feeling.  Intentional progressions are about 50/50 whether I like them.

And I find it cute that scovill equates 50 more miles with 6 more hours of running. 

I am giving myself through december to just run whatever the hell I feel like running and then start some work in January. 

 

I was doing a lot of HM paced tempos in November and December of last year, just as I was getting into training and running a lot of 80-100 mile weeks. Check my log, and click on the "Moderate" days.

 

I did not find these efforts to be extremely taxing, certainly nothing like the effort required to race a half marathon. That's why I labeled them "Moderate."

I think the next step, and one for some reason I've abandoned, is to go 3-4 X 2 @ HM.  I think there is some magic in those workouts and have always been the best when hitting them or even attempting them. I think they're even better than 8 at HM with the hope of going 6 X 2 @ HM at the end of the cycle.  I know they're a big staple of the Brooks-Hansons guys. 

I find it really fascinating to read all these philosophies and concepts, especially being at a pretty green place in my running. I've run on and off for almost 10 years. I've taken it seriously for 2, and this was the first year my training was even worth a shit at all. Running should be simple, and I feel super relieved to be at a place where I can just continue to add milage and it will make a super huge difference results wise. That's not to say that I don't do harder workouts, the 10 mile training workout Jeff mentioned with an escalating effort is one of my favorites, but really I just run by feel.

I try to be consistent mileage wise, and most days, I start running, look down at the 1 mile point and if I'm running a 7:50-8:15 minute pace, that day becomes a tempo day. Sometimes there are a couple in a row. Sometimes I start easy and decide I want to go fast for a while. Other times I think I'm going at a decent clip and am shocked to see I'm running a 9:45 pace, but I figure if that what feels natural, then that's what I should be doing that day. I don't doubt that I'll add more structure as I learn more and certainly when I get to the point that I'm working for months to take 10 seconds off my 5k rather than 3 minutes, or 1 minute off my marathon rather than 30, but I suspect there are more of us in here that could still just add mileage, and run by feel to huge results, than would care to admit it. I really like talking about training strategy and philosophy in particular, but I think Mikey really hit the nail on the head early on in this thread. It's not rocket science, and over thinking it runs the risk of killing the joy in it, and could even lead to injury. 

 

My HM pace is the same as 0.5 seconds/mile faster than yours and I can do this regularly.  Maybe it's because my easy days are a good half minute per mile slower than yours.

I said that I CAN achieve this regularly.  Or COULD, if I just have the mental discipline.