Heh.

 

No.  For real.  How do I know the effort or pace to run since I have not yet run the marathon I am targeting? I know my marathon goal, but that does not mean I have the fitness for it.

Just two people sharing different perspectives.  I would think especially in the Swamp people should have a thick enough skin to be able to do that without getting bent about it.  How does one prove what is right or wrong when people are different anyways?  I simply shared the rationale I have for thinking this way.

 

Using a MP run to build conditioning vs build confidence is two very different purposes.  If you've got a mental block that makes you not believe you can hit a certain time, I'm sure it's incredibly useful.  The last time I did such a run was when I did 15 miles @ 5:25 pace 4 weeks out from my 2:28.  I spent days agonizing over whether I should do it or just back off and trust my training.  I was still not certain I could break 2:22 and thought that if I could hit that workout, I would believe it.  I did it, and it was a huge confidence builder.  When I finished that workout I was certain I could bust 2:22 based on how I felt.  Of course, it also aggravated a pre-existing hamstring injury, cost me that last month of training, and forced me to jog through most of my goal race so I came out behind on that one.

Yeah, it's all good spaniel. As you know, there are many different types of runner. You are a small, slow-twitch guy. I'm small and tend towards fast-twitch. Ben's big and slow-twitch (maybe?)--and lacks a track background. Candice is a relatively new runner, who's just starting to deal with the issues of advanced runners. All of us have different needs and things to offer.

The thing is, in my opinion, you can't really separate out completely the mental stuff from the physical stuff--conditioning vs. confidence--because part of what gives you confidence depends upon your past conditioning. The conditioning that you develop in training is also linked up with habits of mind.

As one moves to becoming a more advanced runner, the brain becomes more and more important. You can't lose any more weight. Your muscles are not going to get tons stronger. Your heart is not going to get hugely bigger. And even capillary and mitochondrial development has its limits (though, here improvements seem to be ongoing). The brain still remains the most plastic organ, and the most trainable.

Heh.

 

No.  For real.  How do I know the effort or pace to run since I have not yet run the marathon I am targeting? I know my marathon goal, but that does not mean I have the fitness for it.

 

I go by effort, not pace.  Marathon Effort will stay pretty much the same even as your Marathon Pace might improve over a training cycle--unless you make a huge change in fitness like dropping 30 minutes off your marathon time in which it becomes, physiologically, a different kind of event...but that's a whole other ballgame.

 

And l too find value in MP runs.  I don't do a lot of them, and when I'm doing one as a marathon workout I tend to do the MP parts in the back half or the middle of a long run, but I definitely think they can get you ready to race a marathon.

 

The other thing is my "tempo" runs have a huge range to them and marathon pace is at the slowish end of some of my tempo runs.  I've done plenty of long "tempo runs" that were in the 6:20-6:30 range, which is right around my marathon pace--sometimes when I'm in the middle of a mileage buildup or it's a cold, dark morning or whatever, that's what a tempo run comes out to if I'm keeping the effort in the right range and not trying to turn it into a race effort.  I don't call these MP runs, but in fact that's what they are.

 

It's really, really not important to be too precise with pace in workouts, except when you're putting the finishing touches on a training cycle and possibly not even then.  Races count, not much else.

Haven't read Noakes! I was thinking of William James's essay on Habit. A wonderful piece on the essence of training.

Yes to Scout, yes to Spaniel.

 

Didn't look at it that way.

 

 

 

So we're arguing simply for the sake of arguing.  Perfect.  Nothing more swampy than that.

 

Except boobs.

 

Now I need to get past the dual mental block of doing my first actual track workout in like 1.5 years and having to do it in record 80deg heat I'm not acclimated to.  BRING IT.

 I think there's also a difference between being a 163-165lb runner who is soft and squishy vs. one like Ben who has not one single ounce of body fat. I would assume that this is an advantage and why he is faster than most guys his size. 

 

And I think he has this type of body because of his background in other sports. 

 

I mean some 130 lb runner guys are carrying more body fat than him percentage wise, even though they're skinny, if you look at it like that. 

 

He couldn't lose any weight unless he chopped off his arm.

 I was assuming BF% roughly equal, having met Ben I know how he's built.  Size is a disadvantage in distance running no matter how much fat you take off.  It's why light-framed little 120-125lb Kenyans rule the road circuits.  When I was on my game and 145-150lb I had 5-6% BF and was the biggest guy running those times in most of the races.  Ben's one of the larger 1:12 HMers I've met.