Hawt and sexy
I don't really have a favorite workout. I just stick to my base work most of the time. I am a MAFfer, but that is how I learned the whole easy pace thing. You see, when I started running as a kid for Jr. high and HS teams, it was mostly speedwork. Back then the question of the day was how many intervals do you think we will doat practice tonight and at what distance? XC was a little better with an easy day peppered in here and there, but that was it. We raced workouts. It made me hate running.
I found this whole MAF thing and decided that it might be for me. Why? Because I might enjoy it. I would want to go run everyday if I ever figured out what easy was. It worked. I spend most of my time doing eays paced workouts. I don't worry too much about if I will be faster tomorrow. I just know that tomorrow I will want to run. The hardest part of running is just getting the mundane miles in day after day. I found my zen. I don't take well to the idea that running slow just hurts too much. Running is hard, and I run. If is didn't lik it I would ride a bike or lift weights. But for me, running is the thing I need to do. I had denied this part of my life for several years and chose to watch and read about runing instead. It sucked. I like myself better when I run, it keeps me in check.
So when I do peak work, I want a plan that has 3 hard days a week. The hard days can be a long run, a med long run, intervals and tempos. I don't peak often. In fact, my current marathon PR was done from 100% easy running. I could not do tempo runs all year around. Maybe I will get to the point where I need one every other week, but I doubt it. When I leave the basics, things can seem to spiral out of control for me. Getting a run in as close to daily as possible is more important to me than speed at this time. I had my time focusing on speed and it sucked, so daily excersize it is. Happiness in doing is cool. All consuming passion is cool. Building speed to get better at any cost? Not so hawt.
For me the hardest part is just getting out the door or hitting the treadmill everyday. That is th challenge I face everyday, I win the challenge most days. I take some time off after some races if I feel I need it, but for the most part, I just run.
I'm touching your pants.
Inglewood
4-5 miles at HM is not a race effort. 13.1 miles at HM is a race effort.
Well said. I agree.
Ricky —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka
Was it all a dream?
Yeah, you've got to be strong to handle that and be running big mileage, but those would be money workouts. This reminds me of a point that is hard to remember--we should be looking to make progress in our workouts as we go through a training cycle: running a bit longer, a bit faster.
Yeah, you've got to be strong to handle that and be running big mileage, but those would be money workouts.
This reminds me of a point that is hard to remember--we should be looking to make progress in our workouts as we go through a training cycle: running a bit longer, a bit faster.
For some reason I went away from it this fall, but alternating weeks between HM tempos and MP tempos (increasing the distance each time) seemed to help last spring. A very simplistic way to work up to a goal race pace, but seemingly effective.
I'm in the business of misery...
I do not doubt that you could do it. If you can for 13, you should be able to for a third of it. I found 4-5 to be hard distance to run HM. I feel like I should be going faster and it should feel easier, but it never does. It gets worse when MP approaches HM. Where is the variance for the recovery? I've tried to tackle this problem with the same ideas Landy tried going for the 4 min mile. Run the pace more often at smaller distances until the distance can improve. I remember reading about his 1/2 mile, then 3/4 mile runs in the park as he approached 2:00, then 3:00 minutes. A lot of failure, but persistence in the effort. These, of course, would be more sharpening exercises, but I don't believe them to be enough of a burden in a week to ruin normal workouts (longer, slightly slower tempos and intervals). They are just beginning efforts until the second phase of long, hard workouts approach prior to the marathon.
I do not doubt that you could do it. If you can for 13, you should be able to for a third of it.
I found 4-5 to be hard distance to run HM. I feel like I should be going faster and it should feel easier, but it never does. It gets worse when MP approaches HM. Where is the variance for the recovery?
I've tried to tackle this problem with the same ideas Landy tried going for the 4 min mile. Run the pace more often at smaller distances until the distance can improve. I remember reading about his 1/2 mile, then 3/4 mile runs in the park as he approached 2:00, then 3:00 minutes. A lot of failure, but persistence in the effort. These, of course, would be more sharpening exercises, but I don't believe them to be enough of a burden in a week to ruin normal workouts (longer, slightly slower tempos and intervals). They are just beginning efforts until the second phase of long, hard workouts approach prior to the marathon.
DITTO!
I find this (bold) to be the ticket for me, of course along with the ever increasing mileage and years of doing it.
If you wore a HR monitor you'd probably see about the same level of effort on the tempo run as you would on the HM.
Jeff made me quit using the HRM, but sure it would be @ the same effort, BUT not as long, therefore recovery would be in 2, 3 days top, no?
Schneidr, you do a bunch of different stuff. I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts on how you structure your training, recover from marathons, the various workouts you do, etc.
The Logic of Long Distance
I tend to get sloppy as I tire, so I concentrate more during repeats than I do on a tempo where I tend to zone out.
There you have it, why they (repeats/intervals) improve your racing, and an explanation (somewhat) of that race day magic as Trent put it.
Back
Depends on what you mean by HM pace. And YOU disagreed with me, saying 3-5 mile tempos @ HM were impossible. That's wrong. Oh, and I know you're "trolling." For some reason people like to act dumber than they are when they post to me to try to piss me off. I'm not sure where this comes from.
Depends on what you mean by HM pace. And YOU disagreed with me, saying 3-5 mile tempos @ HM were impossible. That's wrong.
Oh, and I know you're "trolling." For some reason people like to act dumber than they are when they post to me to try to piss me off. I'm not sure where this comes from.
Dude, I didn't say impossible. I said I didn't think I could do it. If I tried to do a 4-5 mile tempo run, by myself...in the midst of a 70-80 mile week...I'd have a hell of a time doing that. I guess I probably could pull it off, but it would take damn near a 'race effort' for me to do that. I'm not trying to argue with you, and I'm not trolling you. You and I talk running damn near every day and you know I NEVER do a workout like that. So why do you think i'm trolling you? Not everyone is out to troll you all the time.
I am not saying that my way is the right way, I just try hard to balance the whole risk/reward thing. I've battled a lot of injuries in the past and what I've been doing the last 2 years has brought me a whole slew of PR's with not many injuries. That being said....I would like to be more aggressive with my workouts next year, and I plan to pick your fucking brain about those workouts a lot. So I'm not out to get you and troll you ...
Something else to keep in mind. I have 4 miles or more at my HM PR pace (Including that race) exaclty 7 times ever...in my life. Two 4 mile races, Four 5 mile races, and one 1/2 marathon. So that pace ain't exactly easy for me.
Thunder smash!
Really? You run 13.1 @ 6:??, no injury, and you say it's too hard to run 1 mile at that pace, take a break, and repeat 4 more times for a total of '5' miles of quality. That's well within your/our ability to do. You're overthinking, maybe underthinking this workout my friend.
I'm not talking about repeats here Ricky. I would be able to do that in an interval set. I'm talking about a tempo run.
Cool. I have racing goals. I train to race. I like running and I love racing. The rest is details.
That's me also, but I do tend to get carried away sometimes with the details, thinking how they might improve my racing.
4 or 5 x 2 miles at HMP is goodness, however.
Runners run.
Right. But "HM pace" doesn't mean take your HM PR and run that pace. It's an effort, not a pace. When I was running HM pace tempos, they were usually in the 5:50's and 5:40's. Because that's what I would have run a HM at on that day, more or less.
Sorry about the trolling remark. You were "zinging" me like you'd won some argument. I don't agree with you that 3-5 mile tempo runs are hard efforts or damn near impossible, and I didn't want anyone to get that impression. I disagreed with you on that point that you were making, and the advice you were giving to NA. So, we disagree on that point.
NO, I quoted you saying that about the 5 x 1 mile workout @ HM. check it
Right. But "HM pace" doesn't mean take your HM PR and run that pace. It's an effort, not a pace.
So in other words more like marathon pace then? Okay, I agree 4-5 mile tempo runs at HM effort (which most days in the middle of training winds up to be more like MP) are good workouts. I do these with some frequency.
Is this so confusing? HM pace is HM effort. What else would it be? Who goes and runs their PR pace for a tempo run.
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