This study kinda got me thinking...
Not that the study doesn't have its flaws. And it didn't make me think we should abandon tempos and steady state mileage as the mainstays of training. BUT I guess it sorta reminds me that there is a place in training for very hard repetitions.
This is one thing that my coach built in for me occasionally that I was not doing before: low volume reps with very high intensity, done occasionally.
For example:
2 x 2400m cut down w/8 minutes jog between. 1st 800 @ current 5k, 2nd 800 a couple seconds faster, third 800 a couple second faster. You end up with two 1.5 mile reps @ 3k pace.
4 x 1200 @ 5k pace, with the middle 400 at 4s faster than 5k pace (for me 75-71-75), again pretty decent rest between these, maybe 4 minutes.
Anyways, something to chew on as we head towards the spring racing season.
The Logic of Long Distance
Those are pretty big workouts and I can see why you'd want to have one of those every week or 10 days in the last 6-8 weeks of 5k training.
Other times of the year you may want to as much volume but I still think it's good to touch those paces for more than just strides couple of weeks at least, even if mileage and tempos make up the majority of the weekly mileage.
One thing I'm noticing about a lot of the best masters runners around me is they don't go very long without doing something really intense, whether it be workouts or just racing a weekly 5k.
Runners run.
I wonder if this applies universally
As someone who is slower than most on this board, and running a lot lower volume, I find the high intensity workout paces easier to hit than the threshold runs. For example, can run a 6 X 800 at my 5K pace (7:20) much easier than hitting 3 miles at HM pace (8:30). Probably indicates that I need muscle endurance (in other words develop tolerance for faster paces) and Tempo runs are what I need to fix that, in addition to some higher mileage.
I wonder if this applies universally As someone who is slower than most on this board, and running a lot lower volume, I find the high intensity workout paces easier to hit than the threshold runs. For example, can run a 6 X 800 at my 5K pace (7:20) much easier than hitting 3 miles at HM pace (8:30). Probably indicates that I need muscle endurance (in other words develop tolerance for faster paces) and Tempo runs are what I need to fix that, in addition to some higher mileage.
What's the rest on the 6 x 800m workout?
Equal rest, about 3:00 min I think. Yes that is a bit high, but even with shorter rest I think it will still be an easier workout for me than a 3 mile tempo. Maybe the anticipation of the rest coming up real soon or the uniformity of a track, makes it easier?
1) Polarized model: 80% low-intensity; 0% medium-intensity; 20% high-intensity;
2) Threshold model: 57% low-intensity; 43% medium-intensity; 0% high-intensity
From my experience it's not either for elite runners. It's a combination of both. Long term goal for any serious runner should be to get to the point that you could do as much medium and high intensity running as possible without getting injured. The difference between good runners and great runners is IMO their ability to recover fast (which is a result of many other factors).
Slow and steady never wins anything.
Fast is better than long
7 hours ago, but I only ran "really hard" for just over a minute. The rest of the hour I merely ran hard.
2013 Goals: 2500 miles / 2:45 marathon? / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16 5K / sub hour 10 miles
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
What in the Jehu?
Milktruck say relentless
It was last summer.
Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
" ..that corner has narrowed to a half-nekkid egyptian wandering about in the cold new jersey nighttime."~ R2E
The King of Beasts
i ran a 5 x 3 min fartlek at 10k pace with the guys.
as it turns out everyone in the crew was in 29:30 10k shape
I raced the workout just to try and keep up
"As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett
"I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”
well, 1984 for me.
i ran a 5 x 3 min fartlek at 10k pace with the guys. as it turns out everyone in the crew was in 29:30 10k shape I raced the workout just to try and keep up
Holy cow.
That is 5 x 1000 meters in sub 3. If you could keep up, racing it or not, that is impressive.
Makes my mile repeats at 5k look like chicken shit so I will just move along now.
Damn that's a ballbuster.
i ran a 5 x 3 min fartlek at 10k pace with the guys. as it turns out everyone in the crew was in 29:30 10k shape I raced the workout just to try and keep up drop Jeff like a bad habit.
I raced the workout just to try and keep up drop Jeff like a bad habit.
Ha, yeah. "29:30 shape." Oh and I fixed that for ya.
I guess I wouldn't see 6 x 800m w/3:00 rest as a REALLY hard workout -- more like a hard workout and even then not that hard -- more like rhythm running for race pace. (Though it is a good workout.) And I would see it as more or less on par with 3 miles at HM pace but yes psychologically easy. Both of these are good, solid introductory workouts and actually a little bit shy of standard 5k/hm workouts.
____ to the main topic:________________________________________________
I think many of us get this sort of hard stimulus from regular racing. But sometimes it is good to try to go there in a focused and controlled way in training.
Interestingly, I think that people are more likely to go to the well and do very hard running when they do tempo runs for marathon training than they are when they do their speed work. Should it be the opposite?
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