2000 miles of despotic sighing

Training Thread (Read 5871 times)

    I can't really handle Canova. Mostly I can never see putting in the time to really comprehend his posts when I am so far from being at the level to benefit from it. There's no ROI there.

     

    But I did like this part:

     

    Top Champions : WHY ARE THEY TOP CHAMPIONS ? There are many reason, but one is that they HAVE SPECIFIC ATTITUDES VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE RANGE OF NORMAL PEOPLE. Not only, but having more attitude, they can look for more important results, so their training is more professional, there is more volume and more intensity, they can dedicate a period of their life full time to their training, and this means THE BASIC GAP BETWEEN THEM AND NORMAL PEOPLE BECOMES BIGGER EVERY DAY.

    Runners run.

      I can't really handle Canova. Mostly I can never see putting in the time to really comprehend his posts when I am so far from being at the level to benefit from it. There's no ROI there.

       

      But I did like this part:

       

      Top Champions : WHY ARE THEY TOP CHAMPIONS ? There are many reason, but one is that they HAVE SPECIFIC ATTITUDES VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE RANGE OF NORMAL PEOPLE. Not only, but having more attitude, they can look for more important results, so their training is more professional, there is more volume and more intensity, they can dedicate a period of their life full time to their training, and this means THE BASIC GAP BETWEEN THEM AND NORMAL PEOPLE BECOMES BIGGER EVERY DAY.

       

      I have the exact same thoughts about Canova.  And I did the like the part about specific attitudes.  But I do think he gets a little to full of it when he says their training is "more professional".  Does training "more professional" mean running with boots in your bathtub?  Does it mean "eating turtle soup", i.e. drugging up?  What I'm trying to say is that just because they are looking for more important results, that doesn't mean their training is "more professional".

       

      It all starts with a marriage of attitudes and genes.  The marriage happens, mostly, at a young age where those genes and attitudes can be developed beyond the range of a normal person.  That is what leads to a top champion being able to "dedicate a period of their life full time to their training."  That is what allows them to increase the volume and intensity.

      There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

       

      Back beat, the word was on the street
      That the fire in your heart is out
      I'm sure you've heard it all before
      But you never really had a doubt

       

      The Diary of a Once-ran.

      DoppleBock


        I take it as it consumes them - It is the most important thing in their lives.  They put family aside and anything that would get in the way of ideal training.  Not that they do not spend time with family - But it is when it fits into their training.  They eat what is ideal to eat.  They drink what is ideal to drink (Not alcohol).  They do all the core and drills necissary.  Things we maybe do for days or weeks or sometimes even months - But not years on end.

        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

         

          I like Canova because he tends to write about the training process in a different way, which makes it fresh. Plus you gotta love his writing--the uncanny lucidity of his broken English.

           

          Of course if you think about it too much, what he says is either opaque or pretty much common sense, but I guess you get a feel for his temperament as a coach.

           

          One of the fastest guys on here, runwietecha (his log is public), is really into Canova, and if you look at his training, you can see the influence.

            It's been a while since anyone posted here.  Anyway, I'm unhappy to say that I have learned first hand the lessons of "over training" (under recovery).  3 weeks after my goal marathon where I pulled off a ho hum time, even though I should have been in the best shape of my life, I am feeling better and enjoying running more than I have in months.  

             

            I should have realized I wasn't recovering well due to the constant fatigue, poor workouts, and weak races. but I just kept chalking it up to a bad day, just wasn't working hard enough, or being a wimp.  Now I gotta take this and figure out how to train smarter and maybe a little harder Wink

            2013 Goals:
            Run  trails.

                

              I should have realized I wasn't recovering well due to the constant fatigue, poor workouts, and weak races. but I just kept chalking it up to a bad day, just wasn't working hard enough, or being a wimp.  Now I gotta take this and figure out how to train smarter and maybe a little harder Wink

               

              I had this same problem:   fatigue, failing workouts, and weak races.  But then I ran okay for my marathon.

               

              How does anybody determine whether it's overtraining or just regular marathon training fatigue?  And, if I was overtraining, then that means I could have run even faster, right?  This is all so confusing.  And marathons are stoopid.

              There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

               

              Back beat, the word was on the street
              That the fire in your heart is out
              I'm sure you've heard it all before
              But you never really had a doubt

               

              The Diary of a Once-ran.

                This past season has been gratifying for me in that it confirms that a lot of what I thought I knew about running actually works. In the time between Baystate in 2010 and this past spring, I had gotten pretty out of shape. I was a couple pounds heavy, everything hurt and I was feeling my age. I decided if I didn't do something now, I would get so far gone I'd never be able to get all the way back.

                 

                I set my "pie in the sky" goals as sub 1:20 for the HM and sub 17 for 5k for this fall. I wasn't sure those were all that realistic just because in addition to my body really responding well to training, a lot would have to go right, but I figured if I tried and came in at under 1:21 and under 17:15 that I would consider myself "all the way back" since each would rank in my top 5 lifetime performances at those distances--and both are distances I've raced a lot so they are statistically valid. I ran a couple of 5k's in June just to get a sense of how big the task really was. I found out I was an 18-minute 5k-er. Yikes.

                 

                I had to take into account a lot of things outside of running--my job, my kid's schedules, family vacations--and be realistic about what I could commit to for training. I decided to keep it simple and break it down into manageable pieces. The basic elements were:

                 

                1. Become at least a 60 mile per week / 250 mile per month runner.  I took June and July to try an adjust to that without emphasizing workouts, but still doing "something" for a workout

                2. Maintain the mileage above and begin to emphasize the hard/easy paradigm. Plan was, beginning in August, to do everything possible to maintain the weekly pattern of workouts on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and long runs or races on the weekends. For my easy days (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat) just jog 7 miles. I was a little behind schedule on this because my family vacation kind of got in the way, but by September I was finally locked in. The goal was not to make any one workout too big, but to be relentless in never giving my legs more than a day or two of easy running before hitting them again with a workout--just piling on the recovery stimulus. I knew I would never feel great during this period, but I should never feel awful either.

                3. Race as often as possible at 5k - 13.1mi over a 6-8 week period, beginning in September. This is really just an extension of #2 with races becoming harder, more specific workouts. The idea was to race weekly if possible and keep the Tuesday/Thursday workouts. Think of this as a mini peaking phase.

                4. The last 2 weeks of October, drop or back way off on the Tues/Thurs workouts to actually allow my legs to fully recover between efforts for the first time in 6 weeks, drop the hammer at Baystate (goal race and peaking workout all rolled into one), then take a full easy week and go for it at the Great Bay 5k.

                 

                Jackpot.

                 

                Now that I'm back to where I wanted to be, I have options. I may try my luck at another 5k next weekend before the minor setback that will be Monkey. But then I'm trying to decide what to do after that. After the holidays I may do a very short winter session and try and run a decent indoor mile before recovering then doing something similar to the above for spring. We'll see. The bottom line though is I'm back and I feel like I have always known how to do this. This sport becomes a lot easier when you don't have to worry about marathons!

                 

                I'm thinking sub 1:20 1:19 at New Bedford and sub 17 at some 5k in April if my allergies don't blow up too bad.

                Runners run.

                  I think that maybe flatfooter was not classically overtrained in the sense of getting beat down, but maybe more like "stale" from lack of variety and modulation in training. This is a type of "overtraining" in a sense but it is less that your body is spiraling down the cycle of recovery and more that your race performances just plateau or dip slightly and you never feel that spark of fresh legs. Your body has stopped adapting to the training because it is accustomed to it.

                   

                  If you look at abemend's training, this was his first marathon cycle, and it ran for a reasonable length of time -- 3 or 4 months. You would expect fatigue from something like this because it is the first time (at least in a while) that he was trying these long runs, long tempos, etc. This is normal fatigue from pushing your body to do something it is not trained to do.

                   

                  Flatfooter on the other hand has been at the same game for a long time now -- over a year, really, with the same sorts of workouts and mileage. The issue is not so much whether he could handle the training, but whether he is responding from the training. The fatigue of staleness is because the body has become too accustomed to the training and therefore stops responding.

                   

                  Maybe that helps explain the difference? For a guy like flatfooter, I would recommend switching gears to a 5k cycle, new types of workouts.

                   

                  For abemend, what he needs is full recovery after the race and down time -- rest. And then he could probably run another marathon cycle, if he likes and be stronger from the work he's done this cycle.

                   

                  MTA: because mikey just posted -- I believe part of the reason mikey is running so well now is because he got (not too) fat and (not too) out of shape last year. So, he entered this cycle totally FRESH -- but without losing the gains he has made over the last 6 years.

                    I've been a huge fan of Canova ever since I first heard of him about a year and a half ago. I've read and c&ped and saved every post I can find of his. I think it's so interesting and insightful to see not just what he does with such elite athletes in regards to their training, but how he goes on and really explains every thing in a very in-depth manner. 

                     

                    His focus on specificity and the continuity of progression early on and over large macro-cycles is very interesting, as well as the individual focus and how much he apparently changes his athletes' schedules (think he said he'll change like 50% of it by the time an athlete completes the schedule). His comments on coaches adapting methods to the athletes instead of exercise scientists trying to adapt the athletes to the methods and all sounded enlightening.

                     

                    And just the sheer workload that his athletes can handle is mind-boggling.  And I love how Canova continually reiterates that amateur athletes should focus more on how they got to the level to handle those than the actual workouts themselves.

                     

                    And I also first heard of the concept of circuit training and hill sprints from his posts, too. They sound awesome. Would love to try some circuit-type training some day.

                    DoppleBock


                      I am a huge fan of Jeff - But I have a hard time following him completely some time ....

                       

                       

                      I am so speed poor, I plan on investing 2 months ignoring my ultra compulsions (Jan-Feb) and doing 2 speed work outs a week as the cornerstone of that  9 weeks of training.

                       

                      It will be TM based

                       

                      Each week will alternate between

                      1)  3-4 x (5x400 with 400 recovery) with 1/2 mile between each group of 5 - 1.5% incline (Hoping to work toward 12.0 MPH)

                      and

                      2)  2x (5x400 with 400 recovery) with 5-6% incline (Hoping to work toward 10.0%)

                       

                      For the 1st workout

                       

                      Then a nice LAT or Tempo for the 2nd. 

                       

                      After I can do 20x400 @ 12mph at 1.5% inclince or after the 9 weeks (Which ever comes 1st), I plan on starting to lengthen the distance until I can do 5-6x 1 mile.

                       

                      I will fill in the rest of the week with whatever fits that does not interfere with those 2 workouts.

                       

                      It has been many years since I cared - I would guess at 1st it would be better to take a longer recovery interval to get the reps in?

                      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                       

                        I'm looking forward to contributing to this thread over the next 15 weeks or so, probably.

                        Runners run.

                          I'm looking forward to contributing to this thread over the next 15 weeks or so, probably.

                           

                          Dude - You can contribute now.  You have been training consistently for some time now, impressive.  When I get in a base and healthy enough to do some real training, I'm coming to you for some advice.  I'd be more happy running your recent 5K time.

                            Deal, Willie, as long as I can come to you for advice also. You've trained and raced a level I can only dream.

                            Runners run.

                              Where have our milers gone?

                               

                              Im guessing guys are training different now? I dont see Centro getting burnt out. 

                               

                              Is the longterm coaching partnership of Salazar - Rupp (Cain?) rare? 

                                So youre telling me that 65 miles per week just doesnt cut it?

                                .......

                                If Lagat does finish in under 61 minutes, he would join only three other American men who have done so: U.S record-holder Ryan Hall (59:43), Dathan Ritzenhein (1:00:00 and 1:00:57), and Mark Curp (1:00:55).

                                On Monday, less than 24 hours after breaking the U.S. indoor record for two miles as the Millrose Games, the 38-year-old Lagat went for a 14-mile run in Central Park.  His weekly mileage, which throughout his career has topped out at around 65 miles, will reach 80 as he prepares to tackle the half marathon.

                                The mileage is going up, he said, but not all of the intensity is going down.

                                “We always want to make sure we maintain the speed at the end [of a race],” said Lagat, long known for his closing kick. “I do the eight-mile tempo runs now at the same intensity as my five-mile tempo runs. The way I can handle the longer stuff now in training, it feels like I made the right decision” to step up to 13.1 miles.

                                “When you think about it, I’ve been holding back for a long time, so I am basically getting to where I should have been maybe in real life four years ago.”