Looking at my PRs kind of depressed by how I've plateau'd since 2010. Granted last year was a down year mileage wise, apart from that the only change from my earlier running days is that I run far fewer races now. I'll likely still not run very many races, but planning on a race effort workout every other week in addition to Tuesday track workout. Will see.
Rough plan - run 6-7 hours a week about 40 MPW, 4 key workout days
Tuesday intervals/track tempo at 3k-5K pace (about an hour total workout including warmup/cooldown)
Thursday 70-80 min run, or a 30 AM -60 PM double (schedule dictating this)
Saturday 1 hour run with 20 -30 min race effort every other week 20 min at 5K pace or 30 min at HM pace
Sunday Long up to 2 hours
Leaves M-W-F to run 60-90 min total.
Any suggestions or criticism welcome. I can handle the mileage no problem, but would 4 workouts a week be a bit too much? How would you rank the 4 workouts in order of importance so I can bail on the least important if needed. Goal here is to shave 90 seconds off the recent 5K and be able to run that Monkey to claim the beer from CR.
... planning on a race effort workout every other week in addition to Tuesday track workout. Will see. Rough plan - run 6-7 hours a week about 40 MPW, 4 key workout days: Tuesday intervals/track tempo at 3k-5K pace (about an hour total workout including warmup/cooldown) Thursday 70-80 min run, or a 30 AM -60 PM double (schedule dictating this) Saturday 1 hour run with 20 -30 min race effort every other week 20 min at 5K pace or 30 min at HM pace Sunday Long up to 2 hours Leaves M-W-F to run 60-90 min total. ... Goal here is to shave 90 seconds off the recent 5K and be able to run that Monkey to claim the beer from CR.
... planning on a race effort workout every other week in addition to Tuesday track workout. Will see.
Rough plan - run 6-7 hours a week about 40 MPW, 4 key workout days:
... Goal here is to shave 90 seconds off the recent 5K and be able to run that Monkey to claim the beer from CR.
Disclaimer: I'm no expert.
For 5km focus, I think your best bang for the buck is (1) endurance; (2) VO2Max work; and (3) racing the 5km distance regularly. The VO2Max stuff is good for both physical and mental improvement, the latter being to get you accustomed to running at that speed, hurting, and soldiering on. The racing lets you get a feel for what you can do -- and hopefully you'll surprise yourself by running beyond your pre-conceived limit.
So:
MON -- 30min easy
TUE -- intervals/track tempo at 3k-5K pace (~60min incl. WU/CD)
WED -- 30min easy
THU -- 75min easy (perhaps on relatively hilly terrain after you get used to the volume/intensity load)
FRI -- 30min easy
SAT -- 60min easy, maybe progress final 20min if feeling frisky
SUN -- long run (90-120min), maybe progress final 30-40min if feeling frisky
Thoughts?
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
Feeling the growl again
Having put all of 5sec of thought into it...perhaps more later...4 workouts/week is too much. At my peak when I could digest huge workouts and recover quickly, I could only do 3. Perhaps a 4th if I was lowering mileage or other workouts were easier that week..but it was a stetch and I can't say there was a single time I pulled it off well.
These days, 2X per week plus a moderate effort on the long run is max.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Thanks Clive, that's pretty much what I had in mind.
Spaniel, Our group track workout is given out by a coach who keeps the workout interesting and one week it's short fast stuff 400-800, which I invariably do a bit faster than what he prescribes, and the next week is a longer 4-5 X 1200 - 2 X mile - 1 X 4K kind of workouts which I under perform (tend to do these at my 10K pace) indicating I need longer tempo-ish workouts hence the planned Saturday continuous race effort (only every other week). Thursday/Sunday will be kept as slow as needed. So really it's 5 workouts every 2 weeks (Tue/Sat/Sun). I did try 3 workouts a week recently and kind of was bailing on Thursday faster workout so moving that to Saturday so as to recover from Tuesday, and keep Sunday as slow as needed (just run for time and pick up a bit if possible the last 30 min, at least the week of not running hard Sat), and Monday will be a recovery day.
Prince of Fatness
4 workouts is too much. Not that you are old but you are old enough that you need to make sure that you are recovered.
What enabled me to bring my race times down from 5K to HM....
Run everyday.
Mid week one of the following
45 minutes tempo, a little slower than HM effort
6 x 4 minutes at 10K effort with 90 second jog
5 x 5 minutes at 10K effort with 90 second jog (worked up to this one after a few 6 x 4 ones)
Long run
~ 2 hours picking it up to tempo effort for 20 - 30 minutes in the last half
All other days
45 - 60 minutes recovery / easy
Pretty simple. The key was that I did this consistently for months. I would do a few harder mid week workouts as well as some tune up races in the weeks leading up to my goal race, then take it a little easier for a few weeks.
Consistency will take you a long way.
Not at it at all.
For what it’s worth – my entire focus these past 4 months has been taking down my 5k time. For me that was consistent 6-7 hours (50-60 miles):
Monday: easy double
Tuesday: tempo (3 to 5 miles on pace)
Wednesday: easy double
Thursday: Interval/Fartlek
Friday: easy
1 weekend day: moderate “long” (MPish or a little faster 10-12 miles) or race.
Plus strength stuff on Tuesday and Friday AM. And heel drops every damn day whenever/wherever I can.
So, 3 key workouts, backed off when I felt I needed to. Never skip strength stuff with exception of Friday before a race.
Short story: consistency, strength, 3 workouts.
Criticism: No real “long” runs, but I’ve been able to “get away” with that so far for my purposes. As I train for a half later in the year I’m sure I’ll tweak this.
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
Will Crew for Beer
Everyone else that has posted so far is much smarter about running than I am, but I would caution against too much quality work. Our race times look to be close and when I was doing 40+ mpw earlier this year with workouts on Tuesday and Thursday and a long run on the weekend it turned out to be a little more than I was ready to sustain for any length of time.
As you pointed out yourself, your endurance can't keep up with the speed you already have. I think you'll get more bang for your buck in your current situation building a stronger base and save the interval/track workouts for a later time.
That's what I'm planning to do for the Fall. Guess we'll see how well that works out.
Rule number one of a gunfight, bring a gun. Rule number two of a gunfight, bring friends with guns.
Thanks Clive, that's pretty much what I had in mind. Spaniel, Our group track workout is given out by a coach who keeps the workout interesting and one week it's short fast stuff 400-800, which I invariably do a bit faster than what he prescribes, and the next week is a longer 4-5 X 1200 - 2 X mile - 1 X 4K kind of workouts which I under perform (tend to do these at my 10K pace) indicating I need longer tempo-ish workouts hence the planned Saturday continuous race effort (only every other week). Thursday/Sunday will be kept as slow as needed. So really it's 5 workouts every 2 weeks (Tue/Sat/Sun). I did try 3 workouts a week recently and kind of was bailing on Thursday faster workout so moving that to Saturday so as to recover from Tuesday, and keep Sunday as slow as needed (just run for time and pick up a bit if possible the last 30 min, at least the week of not running hard Sat), and Monday will be a recovery day.
Perhaps I am missing something, but be careful if Tue/Sat/Sun are workouts...they should never be back-to-back and if you wrap the weeks together that's 3 workouts in 4 days! (Sat-Sun- (not Mon) - Tues)
How about:
Tues - intervals
Thur or Fri (depending on recovery) - tempo/fartlek
Sun - long run, with quality if up to it.
Never thought of the Sat-Sun-Tue angle, when put that way yeah I might break myself on the faster runs on Tuesday. That idea came from Nobby's out/back workout before the long run day.
So both Spaniel and Clive say Sat should be easy. Not going to argue, especially on my low 30 MPW over the last year. Actually relieved that I don't really need a second faster day. If legs co-operate I'll run a fartlek type run, otherwise nice'n easy 40-60 min most days, maybe finish some of them with some strides.
Perhaps I am missing something, but be careful if Tue/Sat/Sun are workouts...they should never be back-to-back and if you wrap the weeks together that's 3 workouts in 4 days! (Sat-Sun- (not Mon) - Tues) How about: Tues - intervals Thur or Fri (depending on recovery) - tempo/fartlek Sun - long run, with quality if up to it.
This is where I would suggest you land.
Also, I had posted this in another thread way long ago regarding what a typical 7-week stretch looked like from the glory days. Similar type pattern and our long run was typically 90 min and varied depending on when we were racing.
There were a lot of good workouts suggested for 5k training. All repeats are good: 400, 800, 1000, and miles. When I look back at the good ol college days when I went from a 15:43 at the beginning of season to a 15:05 at the end, we did a mix of a lot of things. Here's what the weekly training looked like (intervals only):
Week 1: Tue - 40 min run followed by 16 x 200 m (continuous - jog 200 in between); Fri - 3 x 1600/800 (J400 @ 3 min recovery)
Week 2: Mon - 16 x 400 (60 sec recovery); Thu - 40 min run followed by 8 x 200 (J200); Sat - Race
Week 3: Mon: 5 x 1000/400 (60 sec recovery before 400, 3 min recovery set); Thur - 50 min run followed by 6 x 200 (J200)
Week 4: Tue: 12 x 400 (75 sec recovery); Sat - Race
Week 5: Tue: 2000-1600-1200-1000-800-400 (recovery 3-3-2-2-1 min); Fri - 3 x 1600/800 (J400 @ 3 min)
Week 6: Tue: 8 x 1000 (90 s recovery); Fri - 12 x 300 (60 sec recovery)
Week 7: Mon: 3 x 1000/400 (60s/4 min); Sat - Race
One comment that stuck with me was from Jim Howe, the dude that was running some serious times in his 60's. Haven't seen him post in here for a while. Anyway what he said is that for masters runners there is less benefit in the Vo2 Max stuff. Do most of your work buliding the aerobic engine. Long slower intervals with short recoveries (category 3 in spaniel's interval thread). And get your mileage up there if you can. It worked for me.
One other thing that I can say about doing less workouts per week. You can run them harder. Doing two workouts a week I cannot remember ever having to bail on a workout, and I ran them hard. So while I may have been doing less hard running, what I did do was of high quality.
Food for thought.
I didn't think I would post on this thread but since Jim Howe's advice was brought up I'll do it (I agree with his training philosophy). I guarantee you that the best thing you can do to improve your 5K time, at this point in your running, is just to run more. If that means that you need to cut those workouts completely or take them easier then that's what you should do. Priority #1: Run more. The other thing is that, even though you said you will likely not run very many races, you just have to start to race more. That's the real way to know if you're making any progress and also to keep your motivation up. One 5K every 3 months or whatever just isn't going to cut it. RACE! Let's see your name on the April and May racing thread.
Priority #1: Run more. The other thing is that, even though you said you will likely not run very many races, you just have to start to race more. That's the real way to know if you're making any progress and also to keep your motivation up. One 5K every 3 months or whatever just isn't going to cut it. RACE! Let's see your name on the April and May racing thread.
Absolutely! HF could very easily improve more simply by running more and racing more. In order to race well, you have to "practice" racing. Fortunately the 5k is a distance that you can race more frequently and get by with it. I'm hoping schedules line up here in the coming months so I can do just that.
This is a good thread. A solid reminder for most of us slow guys wanting to get a bit faster.
BTW - Clive hit one right over the wall with the race more 5ks. For me, the more I race them, the better I get at managing the pain and pushing the envelope. You can bang one of these every Saturday and be ready to go the next day.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
Ugh. 5ks terrify me. I actually haven't dared to run one in years. But I will kill that soft PR sometime soon. In fact I was considering this weekend, but the only one I can find is 3.2 miles.