Runs in the rain
Excellent race Art in AZ ! I also have often found it to be slow in the crowd at the start of a race, often just being able to do a fast walk until it thins out. Then you are trying to find your way around slow runners until you get in a group running at your pace. Perhaps this can help sometimes because you get motivated to pass all the slow ones and may then get in a group that is really faster then what you would run on your own. I think there is a "stay with the herd" instinct that makes you want to keep pace with the people around you. Still, if planning to run a race at a certain pace you have to be able to go faster to make up for time lost at the start. A question about the chip time: If it takes you a minute to get to the start after the gun goes off and then lets say you finish the race 2 hours 1 minute after the gun, then is your offical time 2 hours? Would someone who crossed the start line just as the gun went off and crossed the finish 59 seconds ahead of you be placed behind you in the place listings? I had always thought your place was determined by order in which each runner crosses the finish line, regardless of the varied delays at the start.
justrundan - I don't always take my supplemented drink, but I do try to take some vitamins and other nutrients. This includes a whole food multi vitamin, CoQ10 - which is to improve circulation in the heart, Chromium Picolinate - which helps fat burning, Magnesium - which I take to lower cholesterol but maybe helps the bones too, and a Glucosamine Chondroitin complex and Cod Liver Oil to help with joints. I am more likely to fuel up with a smoothie before a long run since I do not like to eat before running and have food sitting in my stomach. My over-ripe bananas I peel, break into pieces and freeze. I add them into a blender with some almond milk and some vanilla extract. For a while I did not use protein powder but I was reading a cycling magazine that said how a lot of protein is assorbed and used to build muscles right after a workout, so now I use a soy protein powder. Actually, right now I am trying a hemp based powder which is said to have a good amino acid balance and have omega 3 oils, but it is rather gritty and I am going back to the soy when this is done. I don't like to use a lot of dairy, so I have never used the whey protein powder. I also may add some vitamin c powder for the antioxident effect. Of course the drink may vary depending on what I have at hand. Blueberries are great, sometimes some chocolate for a change. My idea is this will prevent my blood sugar from getting too low, but I am really not sure. Perhaps it could cause my blood sugar to spike and then drop? I don't know, but I usually don't have problems finishing my long runs regardless of what I did or did not drink .
Long distance runner, what you standin' there for?Get up, get out, get out of the door!
Dan - See, there's another reason I don't like treadmills. They try to hurt you if left to their own desires. One would hope they would give some kind of warning. On the fueling question. For me it depends on the time of year and weather. Now with the weather being cool for runs 8 miles or less I just start the day with some orange juice, get ready and then drink some Gatorade. And refuel when I get finished. During Summer I take water with me. Especially during the summer. For runs 10 miles or longer sometimes I start with a Hammer gel and carry some water and Gatorade. I have a 2 bottle Nathan belt. Sometimes I take the Hammer gel half way through instead of the beginning. I like the Hammer gels better then Gu. And when I practice my long run of 13 miles I use some Hammer Heed instead of Gatorade. Tomorrow will see how I do as I plan on taking a gel at the start and carrying one with me for halfway and carrying some Heed in my water bottles. This is one of the things I question for a race. Bring my drinks or rely on the drinks along the course.
Dan: I wanted to answer your question even tho' it's been a few days. I'm very similar to Art about fuei during training and racing. Much of it depends on where you live, where you run at certain times of the year. Having said that, now that I am living in northern MN where it is not only hot (like in PHX) but so much more humid (it is a 'land of 10,000 lakes) in the summer (when we moved last year). It was a crash course in staying hydrated on my training runs and was very uncomfortable from the beginning. It is such a drastic climate change from northern AZ where it is dry and an elevation of 7,000+ ft. In MN, it felt more like trying to outrun the flying insects including groups of mosquitos who quickly found I was fresh blood/meal at certain times during the day, just waiting for me along the dirt road to the cabin by the lake where we lived temporarily. I have a 2 bottle Nathan belt as well, take a Hammer gel after about 8 miles. Long runs of 10+ miles, I use Hammer Heed too. Longer runs of 3 hrs or more, I use Hammer Perpetuem. If I am running trails, I have to take all my drinks and snacks (Hammer gels, and usually dried apricots) because there aren't places to hydrate as you would on roads close to 'town.' My recovery drink is chocolate soymilk after each run, and eat a protein meal within an hour (even a little bit). I can drink Gatorade or Powerade at aid stations, and they always have water so I don't carry it with me during races. The less you carry, the better for me but make sure you are use to carrying what you may need during your training runs, and don't change for the race. But I find out exactly what they have at each aid stations (water? energy drink? gels? all?) and at what mile.
Congratulations Art! It's always wonderful to post a PR.
I'm in taper-down mode this week since I'm running my first HM next Sunday, so I kept my weekend run to just 5 miles. My longest event to date was a 15k, but my training runs have been longer over the last two months. Forecast for race day here in San Diego is for mostly sunny conditions with temps around 50 at the start and a predicted high for the day of 65. Weather won't be a factor, so it's all on me!
Rich
PRs: 9/1/2012 Disneyland 5K 27:08, 01/06/2013 Resolution 15K 1:30:17, 03/10/2013 San Diego HM 2:18:05, 04/19/2014 ACT! Today 10K 51:54
Art - Great race! Liked the report!
Dan - Can't really give any advice on fueling. You've always seemed to have a pretty good handle on it - to me. Do know it makes a difference. My second 1/2 marathon last year was really good about making sure I had a gu every 40 minutes. 3rd I took the gu's with me and didn't use them, but I bonked around 10 miles and ran 5 minutes slower. Learned you should stick with your plan.
Az - Most of my races have been 10K or less and I rarely every even drink for those. For the 1/2's I now carry gu's, but no fluid. Like you I just use what's on the course.
Debra - When's your next race?
Rich (WDW) - Good luck on your race. You've put in the work and now it's time to see the results.
Altair - On chip timing it depends on the race. You need to check is the bottom line. Some races only use the chips to record place and time, these usually don't have a sensor at the start. For these races you all get the same start time and your overall placement is where you finish. If there is a sensor, the race may record a chip time and a gun time. Where you finish overall can be based on either. A lot of races require first 3 overall be determined by where you finish (gun time) and AG is determined by chip time. I believe for sanctioned events they only look at the gun time. For many races, I will wait for things to clear out and start after the back of the pack is 1/4 to 1/2 mile ahead. I don't like to squeeze in front, but I also dislike weaving through people. Sometimes the strategy works well and sometimes not.
Ran my first race this Saturday (Brazen Racing's Helleyer 5K). Race was sunny and clear probably around 58F at start. Looked like there were about 400 people at the start, so I worked my way into the first third of the crowd. Was definitely surprised to an older woman (60's?) with a walking stick in front of me. The race is chipped with sensors at start and finish, so no reason for her to be there, oh well. About 2 minutes before the start the guy next to her starts jumping up and down, slightly backward so that each jump he's getting closer - plus he's got over the ear earphones on! After about 30 seconds, I put my hand on his shoulder blade to keep him from hitting me in the face, but he gets my toes anyway. Going to be a good day!
Race starts and I move out quickly. I'm stepping lightly and moving up w/o having to move around people too much. Feeling pretty good, but I'm thinking I might be moving a little too fast. I've only had a week of training and my legs were tired - original goal was to hit first mile between 8:00 and 8:15 and do negative splits from there. Mile 1 gets there and my watch says 7:45. Thinking uh, oh - too fast. The next mile is as uphill as this race gets, so I try to slow my pace a bit. I'm tracking a woman who has more grey hair then me, but passed at the 3/4 mile point. I'm trying not to lose too much ground and keep her in sight. 2nd mile is a bit of struggle, but we've hit the turn around and now I'm thinking 9 more minutes hold on. I'm breathing pretty hard and trying to pickup the pace, but my legs don't have much left. As we get near the finish I try finish strong and my legs are moving quickly, but there's no power. Hit the finish and stop my watch 24:47.7 - 8 minute miles on the nose. Checking the watch afterward, mile 2 split was 8:31 and last 1.1 was at a 7:45 pace. My goal was 24:48, but was thinking anything under 25 would be good. So, I'm pretty happy.
Grabbed a bit of water and headed to the turn about 100 yards from the finish to cheer the other runners and wait for my wife to finish the 1/2. I was having fun "encouraging" people to finish strong and talking to a couple of other runners when my wife appeared. Paced her to the finish line. We grabbed some food and then headed for home - definitely a good day to run.
Ray
justrundan
Ray- GREAT job on the 5K! is that a PR? Sounds like you really had the pace down pretty well, even when it didn't feel like it! LOL re: the walking stick! And thanks for advice re: fueling. I think I did OK last year, but wondering what others are using, thinking of trying other options.
Altair5 & az2mntrail- great ideas for my longer runs coming up. I'm just getting to the distance where I'll need to carry something for fuel. The one HM I've done didn't do a good job with fluids, and no fuel, so I was better prepared for the FM I ran in October. They had plenty of stations there. I couldn't tolerate the gatorade much though. I have a gift certificate for a local bike/ski shop and they stock some of the Hammer products, so I may get some of that to try. az- what is it about the Hammer products that you like?
I found an interesting team relay race in east Central WI that is in late April, and had the crazy idea that maybe a group of our Master runners from the upper Midwest might be able to pull a team together for April 2014. Kind of hard to plan that far ahead now, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there so we can kick it around if anyone is interested. It's 55 miles from Oshkosh to Green Bay, about half through towns and half on a paved trail that's more country. There are 11 different legs, divided up as the team (2-6 runners) sees fit. It's called Run Away to the Bay; here is the link. http://runawaytothebay.com/
Have a great week running friends!
Dan
Hi guys! Sorry to have been out of touch. Work and life have been ridiculous and it's been a struggle with training. With HR training, runs have gotten very long. (If there are odd words here it's just my phone overwriting my thoughts. ) I've been mostly commenting in another thread but only bc I started w it earlier here.
Great races Ray and Art!! Nice to see you're back, Ray! Altair, had a Garmin and the sound drove me nutty. Gave it away bc besides being annoying, the buttons were hard to push. Got a Motoactiv. I like it but can't say I'm in love. It doesn't work in the cold very well. No alarm. It prob. has one but you quickly learn your time intervals and look just to confirm. IPhone apps also read HR monitors. Love HR training! It's been good but boring.
Az, you mentioned in a post that you walk/run. Is that what you normally do? You run at such a fast pace! how much walking to running do you do?
HR training is showing big improvements in the last three weeks. I've been doing it since 1/10. Have to run 18 miles this weekend so really on edge. I switched to constant jogging since I was *running* so slowly and bc I was bored. So this week's 12 mi LSD was 3:20. I don't see myself going for another 90 min. It's cold when your drenched in sweat. So it's time to pick up the pace with run/walks. Now that legs are much stronger I want to use them and keep the aerobic fitness I built. So, it would help to hear walk run/walk ratios you are all using to get an idea of what is realistic for long? I was using 1/1 but that was bc going longer made me breathless. I doubt I'll have that problem now. Thanks!! Marie, sent a friend request. Love to see ur pix!!
Run strong and fierce!
Mary Kay
2013 Race PRs: FM - 6:30; 5k - 36:39; 10k - 1:24:06; HM -2:57:32
Persistence can change failure into extraordinary achievement - Matt Biondi
I am an extraordinary achievement - Me
Oh, have tried them all and highly recommend Hammer gels for their taste and ease on my stomach. Anything berry, tropical, and vanilla. Chocolate and espresso are too intense for me but could be a fave for others. I'm good w just water for two hour and need more after that.
I would not recommend protein before a race. Eat and drink before a race exactly as you do before a training run. Err if you must with less and pack what you need. My end of race is usually (phone is really a pain tonight) chocolate almond milk. Taste much better than soy IMO. I'll take broth or applesauce too and like AZ I try to eat protein within an hour. I am not hungry after a long run so it's a struggle. Have a great race !!!
Dan - I rested Sunday. Sort of. If you call working in the yard and garden resting. Legs were a little sore, just barely noticeable pain. Mid-afternoon went to grandsons birthday party and watched the kids run around the arcade. I know as you get in more miles it gets easier in running the longer distances.
AZ2MN - After checking my official time I felt even better knowing I did better than I was hoping for. I was even surprised to see that I was 4th in my age group. Now to see how far I can carry it to the Fall after the Summer here with the high temps.
Debra - For breaking in the shoes, kind of. I did a 3 mile run the Wednesday before and then a 3 mike walk on Friday. Shoes felt good.
Speaking of training, part of my apprehension was based on I ran less miles before the HM than I did last year for the same time period. Last year Jan/Feb was 118/114. This Jan/Feb was 75/104. Both had equal number of long runs at same distance prior to race. The difference I believe, at least for me, is that between the two I had a long distance most months of 13 miles. The long runs during a month were like 10-11 one week, 12 the next, 13 the next, 11 the next and so on. I kept rotating through the distances. During the rest of the week would be either a 3, 5, 6 or 8 mile run. Days off varied based on work. So I think, again in my case, the more you do something the easier it gets. Well sort of easier. We're still running 13 miles. And I just mix in the variables of tempo, speed or whatever, rather than run them a specific day, pace and distance.
I was reading the Sub 2:00 Half Marathon thread and someone mentioned a program called RLRF. Run less, run fast. I was wondering if there might be something to that. Somebody else thinks so because they wrote a book about it.
Art in AZ
Mesa, AZ
ART: I have been reading about the 'new' thoughts on "run less, run fast." It has been around for some time but just been modified by runners who tire of their same old training plans. Some elite runners (mainly long distance runners) have been using them in place of their long runs lately. I'm not an elite runner and don't have the luxury of running for a living. I'm all for change but I tend to stay with Galloway, modifying it to fit my current fitness level and goal. In a way, Galloway does do the 'run less, fun fast.' I have to explain to some new/non runners that one doesn't 'just run,' there are different training runs (sprints, hill repeats, tempo, etc.) to reach your goal. It's a challenge and to top it off, being discipline and consistent. Tough but the results are incredible as you found out with your PR in your recent HM!! Just amazing!! WOW and CONGRATS on the 4th place in your AG!! YAY!!
Mkayc: I do incorporate walk breaks in my training runs and races still. It depends on the distance and terrain and my current fitness level. Therefore, I have trained to the level that I usually run a mile (or 2 miles), walk 1 minute (or 30/45 seconds). Less muscle fatigue/stress from those walk breaks allows me to run faster each mile and a stronger finish. It has done wonders for me on technical trail running for sure, and I believe it's one of the reasons why I am still running in my 50's and doing pretty good if I say so myself. I've had my share of injuries but most of those have been from my basketball years which smarter training and recovery in my running years have helped me manage them.
Dan: My thoughts about Hammer products is that staying with the products in the same line will work off of each other better. I really don't experience much soreness or aches after which is great in that I can run the next day if I want. And so far, it has worked for me. Less trouble with my tummy, easier to digest, and variety of flavors.
WDWRich: Where is your HM? GOOD LUCK!! You'll do awesome!!
Ray: Great finish time!! Yippee!! And so wonderful of you to pace your wife to the finish!! Gosh, that really helps to finish strong too!! Great race report!! When is your next race?
Ray- Congrats- that is a great time for the 5k! The last 5k I ran was the Disneyland Carsland 5k back in September. There were so many participants that I had to pretty much walk or very slow jog for the first 3/4 mile. It was an untimed event, but by my watch I finished in 28 and change. By far my slowest ever 5k, but what the heck, it was a blast running through the Disney parks.
Run well everyone!
az2mntrail- It's the San Diego HM on Sunday March 10. Starts next to PETCO park and finishes in the Gaslamp Quarter. The first 8 miles are flat, then it's up hill for the next 2 and finally a gentle downgrade to the finish. I'm starting to feel the excitement already! I know I can maintain about a 9:45 pace on a flat course, but the 2-mile uphill span may slow me down a bit. Just have to see how it all shakes out.
Cheers!
Rich, sounds glorious!! Enjoy every step!!! San Diego in the winter, hmmmmm.
Az- thanks!! A minute a mile is about what I would have figured given your paces. I'll give it a try!
Rich, sounds glorious!! Enjoy every step!!! San Diego in the winter, hmmmmm. Az- thanks!! A minute a mile is about what I would have figured given your paces. I'll give it a try! Mary Kay
Mary Kay: be patient. I have a friend of mine (mid 30s) who just started running again after many years. We talked about training plans, her asking about my running, etc. She told me she can pick it up again with 'no problem' because she use to run 'really good' in high school, and has relatives who are runners so it's in her genes, etc. uh, huh!! Her and 2nd friend (mid 40s) registered for the Las Vegas HM and I kept encouraging them both to be serious about their training runs. They both finish but 2nd one did better than 1st one. 2nd friend is not a runner but wanted to say she did a race, trained consistently with longest run of 11 miles. 1st friend trained sporadically with longest run of 3 miles! Seriously!! She barely finished under 3 hours! She stopped running after this but last month she decided to run another HM in May and has become more consistent in her training. She asked about the Galloway and what my thoughts were on incorporating it in her training. Told her to read the book to at least understand the concept of the run/walk/run philosophy so it makes sense when she trains and races. For the first 2 weeks, she ran 5 minutes, walked 1 minute; then the next two weeks, she ran 7 minutes, walked 1 minute, now she is running 9 minutes, walking 1 minute. In addition, she is doing hill repeats and sprints. It's working very well for her so far. Working up slowly as her fitness level improves. I feel so much better about her and the change in her attitude. I have always said, "no matter the distance, respect the distance."
Thank you Az! I hear you and Excellent advice!!
Forgot to answer a couple of posts so here goes.
Altair5 - As for the timing as I remember it explained to me is like Ray mentioned. Gun time is usually used to determine overall finish. That's why most races allow the elite or fastest runners at the front. And strongly suggest that those they do not think fit the criteria should move further back. Some even have corrals based on your expected time for you to be in. Chip time is used to determine the time in age groups. This way you are not penalized for starting farther back. Especially since everyone can not start in the front. I have seen where someone finished first in their age group and was in the top finishers overall where they removed them from the age group and bumped everyone else up a slot. Depends on the race. It's something I don't worry about because the only way I'll be the fastest in my age group is if no one else shows up.
Rich - Good luck with the San Diego HM this weekend.
Ray - Nice job on the 5K. I bet your wife appreciated you running with her to the finish.
AZ2MN - I agree it's a challenge running. And you are right, the key is to be disciplined and consistent. It also depends on what you want out of running, your overall structure and the amount of time you have to devote to running. I did see a couple of runners that were using the run/walk method. I remember my first long runs. They were run/stop. I would run a half mile to the middle through street and get to the stop light at the intersection. Each subsequent intersection was a mile down the road. I would run until the intersection. No red light I would carry on through. Red light I would have to stop and wait. After a while I had to find a different route with less "stops". But yes, the stops felt good taking a little break.
Today did a 5 mile run at a moderate pace. While passing the local grade school one of the teachers has the kids outside on the sidewalk. A few of the kids thought it was fun to run with me a little. Tomorrow is a planned 8 mile run with the long gentle inclines. Good prep for Sunday's were at mile 6 starts a significant climb for about a mile before the downhill towards the finish. Weather looking good so far.