Not the actual name of this race. After my recent 10k debut (45:46, 3rd AG), everyone here seemed to be shaming encouraging me to doing a 5k next. So 12 days later, here I am.
The 10k was conveniently located 1 mile from my house, and ran through my neighborhood. This race however was a whopping 2.5 miles away. Perfect warmup jog distance. Man it is nice to not have to worry about parking.
I was originally thinking about doing this as another 10k (they actually had 10M, 10k, 5k, 1M), but decided to give in to RA pressure to use it to finally get a 5k time in the books.
Splits:
1 - 7:00 - about 6:45 for a while, but did not hold (not coincidentally dropped off after ~800m). After the first mile I was ready to be done, lol.
2 - 7:05 - 7 min pace for more than a mile was completely uncharted territory for me, so just working to maintain
3 - 6:49 - not really looking at my watch, just trying to keep it up
0.1 - 5:37 - had something left in the tank at the end apparently
Time - 21:33 (6:57 avg pace)
AG - 2/53*
OA - 22/1114
* The results posted on the board after the race showed me 2nd place AG. Just now looking at the official results posted online, and it shows me 1st. WTF? I then realize they did not include the Masters winner, who was in my AG. Do they remove that person from the AG placings? I don't know how this stuff works.
They also had some problems with the timing initially, a bunch of people had no time recorded. People were waiting in line to pick up their AG awards, and had to be told the times were not official, it was being worked on, etc. There were some angry people there, you do not want to mess with runners' times. Sounded like it was going to be a while, so I just left without my lovely thermal mug. Another 2-mile cooldown jog home.
Amazes me that people can go into great detail on 5k race reports; it just felt like it was over so fast. I still find it difficult to push hard enough early in the shorter races (from HM down really). So I end up negative splitting, which is cool, but tells me I could be faster. I realize I should be more aggressive, even at risk of fade, since that's the only way to find the breaking point.
So now all 4 of my PR's are within a 4-week span. Of course 2 of them are based on a single data point. I am pretty sure I could improve on my 5k & 10k times with more speed training & more aggressive pacing, but I'm not sure I'm that interested in more racing this season. I still maintain that my purpose for running both races was to have benchmarks to use for marathon training paces & a potential goal time for the fall. (Although the AG placings were pretty nice! Will never see that in a marathon.)
Which brings me to the marathon goal (which should maybe be another thread). Based on Daniels & McMillan, respectively:
I realize the calculators tend to be optimistic, especially with someone of my somewhat limited marathoning experience. I ran a 3:52 only 8 weeks ago, it's not like I've gotten that much faster in that time. But with another strong training cycle (& maybe an actual plan this time), who knows. So trying to figure out what to do with this information. I think 3:30 may be unrealistic, but 3:40 may be reasonable. What do I use for training paces? Maybe base speed work on 5k, but MP miles on 3:40? I suppose I may only know once I actually start training, and see what kind of paces I can hold.
Dave
Uffda
Now that's some good racing Dave! GREAT job taking 1 in your AG. IDK how that placing stuff works, because I normally don't have to deal with it.
As for your FM goal time, I think 3:35 is totally feasible. You have the speed for sure. I would just rip through those Threshold runs and make sure you do some higher mileage MP runs and you'll have it locked up.
- Andrew
uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI
So, you do have some speed in those legs, after all. Nice time, DaveP and like you said you probably could have been faster. Four PRs in four weeks is more than impressive, it's VERY impressive. As far as your next marathon cycle I would start at 3:40 and you will likely adjust it as you go. Now, go relax.
Dave, I went from 3:53 in June of 2011 to 3:40 in November of 2011 and had only peaked at 60 miles during that training cycle. Knowing how dedicated and smart you are, I think you can easily get a low 3:30s. I'm highly impressed with your improvement. Awesome job today and congratulations on your AG award! (and no, just because you did great, I'm still not interested in 5ks. )
P.S. It's not unusual to only give one award. So if the 1st place also won Masters, then he's out of your AG and you're 1st.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
Wow! First AG in your first 5K... great job Dave!
FWIW, I'd get your McMillan paces from a recent HM if possible. The short stuff is really a different beast.
LTH might still have his "guide to the 5K" or whatever, I know he posted it way back at the Evil Place and it's really good.
In a nuthshell, mile one should be "holy hell I'm running fast" but shouldn't feel that way -- two should be some discomfort while trying to maintain most of the speed of mile one, and three is a blur of trying to finish the thing, because you're almost done.
Congrats on making it happen and doing so in stealth mode! We are peas in a pod as far as that goes.
Everyone has their own way but for me the 5 & 10k races are a set-up for your half marathon goal time, and the half marathon sets you up for your marathon goal time.
The four distances can work in conjunction in that regard but until you know what your strength as a runner is (speed or endurance), it is probably not a good idea to use the shorter races for your marathon time. Of course you could also not race any of them and determine your marathon time based on your training so there is that.
As for 5k splits we all run them differently so it is incredibly difficult to say you should do them this way or that. In my best 5k's for example, my 3rd mile is always the fastest, by a lot. My first mile is usually the second fastest and the middle mile the slowest. Sure, you could expend a little more the first mile but if you do that consciously now you are not racing naturally, which is an important aspect I think to racing.
Congrats on the 1st in AG, and that's a rather large field where I come from. Nice splits too. I know absolutely nothing about marathons, but based on the info you provided, I would say 3:40-3:45.
Congrats! I know the pressure was not from me since 5Ks suck and I hate them.
Damaris
As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.
Fundraising Page
No more marathons
Congrats Dave - glad you submitted to the pressure. That's a nice debut 5K.
Sub 21 is there if you want it.
Boston 2014 - a 33 year journey
Lordy, I hope there are tapes.
He's a leaker!
FWIW, I'd get your McMillan paces from a recent HM if possible.
Right, I meant to post that as well. My 1:45 HM converts to 3:38-3:42, which maybe makes more sense. Although probably a soft HM time as it was a big negative split (first 10 at 8:10, final 3.1 at 7:36), so not sure what that would've ended up at if I ran it smarter.
Yeah I did this damn thing completely backwards.
In any case, I focus on 3:30 mainly because it is the big number for me - BQ for 2016. But I think it is probably too much time to try to cut off in one cycle.
Right, I meant to post that as well. My 1:45 HM converts to 3:38-3:42, which maybe makes more sense. Although probably a soft HM time as it was a big negative split (first 10 at 8:10, final 3.1 at 7:36), so not sure what that would've ended up at if I ran it smarter. Yeah I did this damn thing completely backwards. In any case, I focus on 3:30 mainly because it is the big number for me - BQ for 2016. But I think it is probably too much time to try to cut off in one cycle.
Nay, you've shown you have the speed, and you have the base for a good marathon prep. Put in the training and 3:30 is there.
Mmmmm...beer
Great job Dave! Most races I've been in, they don't allow double dipping, so if you place Masters or OA, you don't get an AG award, so 1st place is all yours! That's an outstanding debut time, and great pacing to boot!
-Dave
My running blog
Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-3 marathon 2:56:46!!
Excellent race, Dave. What a nice PR-binge you've been on!
Life is good.
Hip Redux
See? Totally worth it. Nice job on the AG win!
Now, answer your damn PMs, will ya.
Agreed. Having run a 10k & 5k your current HM PR is now soft. In the world of stress and adaptation, that's just how these things work.
Train for a 3:30 then run R2R with me to see if your fitness affirms that goal.