Beginners and Beyond

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A question regarding high mileage neutral trainers (Read 105 times)

LRB


    I am experimenting with neutral shoes this off-season, and after a few weeks of research, decided on the Nimbus 15 as my high mileage trainer based on what I thought was a better choice for me.

     

    I was not sure what it was about them that was throwing me for a loop until today's run (wearing my DST's), when it occurred to me that the Nimbus does not roll from heel to toe, or mid-foot to toe depending on how I am running that day.  What I mean by that is when running in them, I essentially put my feet down and pick them up.

     

    Now, those with more running experience can answer whether that matters or not, but it seems to me that it is affecting my stride efficiency, or something.

     

    It could be that I am still adjusting to this particular shoe, but I run much more smoothly in my other trainers than when in the Nimbus.  Could it be that I selected the wrong trainer, and maybe should have gone with the Asics Cumulus?  Or that I overlooked a possible better high mileage trainer by another manufacturer, I am 5'11" 180 lbs.

     

    I wear Asics because I get pretty good mileage out of their products, over 500 miles easily in the Kayano and currently 250 miles and looking great in my DST's.  But I suppose I would try another brand if I can get similar mileage, and that fluid transition as my foot goes across the surface that seems to be missing.

     

    Thanks.

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?

      Sounds like they are too stiff, not enough flexibility in the sole. Test them by seeing how easily they bend, then compare them to your other pairs.

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      Docket_Rocket


        I run in neutrals but I cannot stand the Asics so I am no help there.  But I agree with George; sounds like they are not much flexible.

        Damaris

         

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        StepbyStep-SH


          I run in the Cumulus, but haven't tried the Nimbus. Have to agree that it sounds like a flexibility issue. You may be giving up flexibility to gain cushion. You have probably, also, lost any kind of pronation correction by going to the Nimbus/Cumulus line - I think the DS Trainers do still have a bit of correction in them.

          Cumulus have mostly treated me well over the last 7 years, but the 13s and 14s were both a bit narrower in the toe box than they had been previously.

          20,000 miles behind me, the world still to see.


          #artbydmcbride

            I have been trying out the New Balance 1080 to see if it is a good high mileage neutral shoe.  I think I am missing some arch support, and get that same flat footed feel.  Sad

             

            Runners run

            Love the Half


              I have worn the Nimbus forever and love them but everyone is different.  They are really cushioned and that's going to affect the flexibility of the shoe.

              Short term goal: 17:59 5K

              Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

              Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

              redrum


              Caretaker/Overlook Hotel

                I was waiting for Brad to chime in.

                 

                I ran in Cumulus a few years ago & liked them but they started changing too much.  I switched to Nike Air Pegasus.  They are similar in that they're little bros to their old siblings.  (Pegasus = Cumulus)  (Nimbus = Vomero)

                 

                I remember once trying on Kayano's but I am definitely not a "support" or "structure" shoe person.  That just doesn't work for me.

                 

                You might find the Nimbus break in well for you but since I've never worn them, I can't say!

                 Randy

                LRB


                  You have probably, also, lost any kind of pronation correction by going to the Nimbus/Cumulus line - I think the DS Trainers do still have a bit of correction in them.

                   

                  It has been a tough nut to crack for sure.  It turns out that I am not an overpronator as I once thought, I have high arches.  Apparently there is a difference  I can run 8 to 10 miles in the DST's without a problem (they are considered light stability).  Anything above and beyond however that my left ignorant band gets ignorant, and I have to use Green Superfeet insoles.

                   

                  I can run forever in the Kayano 19 without switching the insoles but the wear on my shoes indicates that I supinate.  I was told that this is exaggerated wearing stability shoes, and that I should be able to run in neutral shoes without a problem if I switch to arch support insoles when I run long or during high mileage weeks.  So that is where this experiment was born.  Still with me?

                   

                  LTH, me and Scotty had that conversation in the dailies and unless I got a bogue pair, the Nimbus 15 is like running in bricks compared to the Kayano 19.  Or maybe it is just me.  : : scratches head : :

                  LRB


                    It occurred to me during today's run that I may be focusing on the wrong aspect of this dilemma.  I think I am at a point where I need to get closer to the ground, not further from it.

                     

                    As a result, I am going to make the DST my daily trainer, and find something else for interval and faster paced training/racing.  So the experiment continues, only now in a different direction.


                    Resident Sk8r boi

                      Thanks for posting this topic. I've been having some frustration and a knee issue since I switched/got fitted to a new shoe model. I am a 'pick 'emup and put 'em down' runner, but ever since I got fitted into Brooks Ghost 6's I have had trouble, culminating in a strained knee. I got put in the ghosts b/c I was seeking a little more underfoot for high mileage weeks in marathon training.

                       

                      Your  post helped me realize part of the issue: the Brooks want to roll through the gait and  have been fighting it,evidenced by weird muscle fatigues in my legs that didn't make sense Plus the knee problem. When I switch back into Kinvaras and my Altras things go well with my knee but my feet feel more beat up over long runs.

                       

                      tl;dr Brooks are a 'roll through the gait' kind of shoe. Maybe check out the Ghost or Glycerin.  And thanks for your post, it helped me a lot!

                      crazyrunninglady


                      Warrior Princess

                        Question - do you heel strike or forefoot strike?

                         

                        I forefoot strike and find transitions difficult in heavy nuetral trainers.  The heel drop messes up my stride.   I run in a LOT of shoes as I product test for Nike.  My every day trainer, though, is NB 890 so I think the Asics equivalent would be the Cumulus.

                         

                        This may not be an issue for you if the Kayano doesn't cause you trouble.  That is the bit that perplexes me as it is also fairly heavy and has a significant heel drop.

                         

                        Did you have any pain with Kayano?  I'm curious why you switched.  I was mistakenly put in a stability shoe (I do supinate) but suffered horrible knee pain until I switched.  The only stability shoe I've been able to run in without any issues was the original Nike Lunarglide.  I'm still put out with Nike for messing with something I will forever consider a perfect shoe.

                        StepbyStep-SH


                          Question - do you heel strike or forefoot strike?

                           

                          I forefoot strike and find transitions difficult in heavy nuetral trainers.  The heel drop messes up my stride.   I run in a LOT of shoes as I product test for Nike.  My every day trainer, though, is NB 890 so I think the Asics equivalent would be the Cumulus.

                           

                          This may not be an issue for you if the Kayano doesn't cause you trouble.  That is the bit that perplexes me as it is also fairly heavy and has a significant heel drop.

                           

                          Did you have any pain with Kayano?  I'm curious why you switched.  I was mistakenly put in a stability shoe (I do supinate) but suffered horrible knee pain until I switched.  The only stability shoe I've been able to run in without any issues was the original Nike Lunarglide.  I'm still put out with Nike for messing with something I will forever consider a perfect shoe.

                          Cumulus is still heavier and higher heel drop than the 890. I have both of them in my rotation right now, and reserve the 890 for the dirt trail rather than using it on pavement. I really like it - I'm just a bit tentative about wearing it on harder surfaces because I worry it will cause a PF flare-up.

                          20,000 miles behind me, the world still to see.

                          LRB


                            Question - do you heel strike or forefoot strike?

                             

                            I forefoot strike and find transitions difficult in heavy nuetral trainers.  The heel drop messes up my stride.   I run in a LOT of shoes as I product test for Nike.  My every day trainer, though, is NB 890 so I think the Asics equivalent would be the Cumulus.

                             

                            This may not be an issue for you if the Kayano doesn't cause you trouble.  That is the bit that perplexes me as it is also fairly heavy and has a significant heel drop.

                             

                            Did you have any pain with Kayano?  I'm curious why you switched.  I was mistakenly put in a stability shoe (I do supinate) but suffered horrible knee pain until I switched.  The only stability shoe I've been able to run in without any issues was the original Nike Lunarglide.  I'm still put out with Nike for messing with something I will forever consider a perfect shoe.

                             

                            The Kayano actually rolls with relative ease comparatively speaking and aside from its girth, did not give me any problems.

                             

                            This whole thing came about during my latest stint on the bench after the PT (who has run for nearly 30 years and been a PT for 20) determined that I am a supinator with high arches, not an overpronator as I was lead to believe after analysis at the running shop.

                             

                            In her opinion, it is inefficient for a supinator to run in a shoe that can possibly exaggerate what the feet are doing on their own.  She suggested I try a neutral trainer with support insoles.

                             

                            Apparently, I am able to run in certain stability shoes without major problems.  I ran just fine in the Lunarglide 3, but the Lunarglide 4 nearly tore my right ankle apart.  I can run in the Kayano, but the Brooks Adrenaline made me feel as if I was standing on the sides of my feet.

                             

                            To answer your question, I do not strike with my fore-foot.  I land on my mid-foot primarily, but sometimes drag my feet or heel strike when I am disinterested, lose concentration, or fatigued during a run.

                            crazyrunninglady


                            Warrior Princess

                              Well, shoot, there go all my theories!

                               

                              If you supinate, you definately do not belong in a stabilitiy shoe.  A stability shoe can exaggerate your supination - which is how I struggled with early knee problems.

                               

                              Early versions of the LG were more nuetral but have become progressively more stability minded.  I've run in the 1 and two versions of the 3 but do not have experience with the 4.

                               

                              I would look at lightweight cushioned trainers.  I don't consider the Pegasus lw even though it claims to be.  Haven't run in the Asics.  Love the NB 890.   Ran in the Mizuno Precision but haven't tried to Sayonara update.  I've run in Newtons and Ons as well but those probably are not what you are looking for.

                               

                              Tested a truly amazing lw cushioned trainer for Nike over the summer but it's not on the market yet Sad

                              Gator eye


                                You might give Saugony triumph's a look.

                                I use the nimbus for long runs but for speed or hard training runs the Triumph's have a light and flexible feel to them.  I don't get as many mile out of the triumph as the nimbus, I ve got 500 out of my last pair of nimbus and the triumph are pretty wiped out around 350 or so.

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