I actually have done a couple in the past, but looking at Daniels Marathon Training Plan A, I have one looming that is looking awfully unfriendly:
2 miles easy
2 X 12 minutes @ tempo pace
8 to 10 miles easy
20 minutes @ tempo pace (basically a 5k)
2 miles easy, OOF!
And trip this; that's not even the hardest one, those are to follow! It just goes to show that sometimes are toughest workout, is our next workout!
Do you have one on the horizon or one that you have done in the past for any distance? If the former, are you scared? If latter, were there any tangible results?
@runjerseygirl
I've never done any kind of speed work. Scares the crap outta me.
Do you even run?
My toughest workout is my coach's crowning jewel:
22 miles with 8 @MP + 20%, 8 @ MP + 10%, and last 6 progression from MP to HMP
Last year I did the same except it was a 20 miler. This year, he upped the ante. It is not speedwork but it is FUCKING HARD.
Damaris
As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.
Fundraising Page
Caretaker/Overlook Hotel
I actually have done a couple in the past, but looking at Daniels Marathon Training Plan A, I have one looming that is looking awfully unfriendly: 2 miles easy 2 X 12 minutes @ tempo pace 8 to 10 miles easy 20 minutes @ tempo pace (basically a 5k) 2 miles easy, OOF! And trip this; that's not even the hardest one, those are to follow! It just goes to show that sometimes are toughest workout, is our next workout! Do you have one on the horizon or one that you have done in the past for any distance? If the former, are you scared? If latter, were there any tangible results?
I think the ones that are scariest are the ones where you do more than 1 of something. That 2 x 12 minutes @ tempo in your list is killer because you onto a how bad the first one hurts, you set a pace that you know you shouldn't cheat on (for the 2nd, 3rd repeat, etc.) so just before you start the 2nd one, I usually start trippin' thinking, "There's no way I'm gonna make it thru this!"
Embrace the pain!
Randy
2 miles easy 2 X 12 minutes @ tempo pace 8 to 10 miles easy 20 minutes @ tempo pace (basically a 5k) 2 miles easy, OOF! And trip this; that's not even the hardest one,
And trip this; that's not even the hardest one,
For me, this is 19-21 miles w/7+ @ tempo...yeah, "next" is right. I wouldn't touch that. I consider myself a somewhat smart, tough runner, but the smart would beat out the tough on that one. 18 w/14 at MP is tough enough for me. That's the one I always dread in a marathon build up.
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
Healed Hammy
I think it is generally accepted that on the Pfitz plans the 17 with 14 at MP found in one of the highest mileage weeks is the toughest workout. Toughest is a relative term so individual thoughts may vary. I just completed my first MP workout this past weekend, 16mi with 12 at MP and it was not easy.
LRB, tempo paces (I know they are continually re-interpreted here and elsewhere) in my mind are between 10k to 15k pace, with Pfitz recommending lower volume runners stay closer to the 10k pace. With that in mind I don't think a 12min tempo segment is that significant, and in that particular workout there is 44 min of total tempo work. In the Pfitz 18/55, as part of the LT mesocycle he has a 12mi with 7mi at tempo pace which for me equates to a little over 50 min of 15k pace (and only 2.3 miles shorter than a race distance).
I would think some of your R pace sessions and I sessions you did as part of the 5k/10k race training are tougher, I don't think I would enjoy those at all.
How is 20 minutes at tempo pace basically a 5k? 20 minutes at 5k pace would be basically a 5k.
Barking Mad To Run
Getting off the couch and out the door to go run
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Roosevelt
Are we there, yet?
Here's one I did a couple months ago that exhausted me:
Run 3 miles easy, one mile hard about 10K pace a total of 5 times for 20 miles total.
Here's an old one I haven't done in several decades:
Ladder series starting at 200m moving up to 1200m in 200m increments at 3K race pace with equal distance jog recovery, then come down the ladder with each interval progressively faster finishing with a 200m at 800m race pace.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Labrat
Daniels does have some fun ones.
I did 20 min easy 20 min Tempo 60 min easy 20 min Tempo 20 min easy
Or as I like to shorten it : 20E20T60E20T20E
(the first and last 20 mins are actually supposed to be 2 miles, but I do the workout on time and its basically the same)
The second block of tempo (be it 20 min or various shorter intervals with short rests) on tired legs really is a kicker.
20 min at tempo for me is about 2.5 miles
5K 20:23 (Vdot 48.7) 9/9/17
10K 44:06 (Vdot 46.3) 3/11/17
HM 1:33:48 (Vdot 48.6) 11/11/17
FM 4:13:43 (Vdot 35.4) 3/4/18
How is 20 minutes at tempo pace basically a 5k?
My tempo pace is 6:38, at 20 minutes that is 3.01 miles. While I would have killed for a 5k time like that a few years ago, I am not looking forward to running it within a 17 - 19 mile run. Aack!
4/5, yes, "R" and "I" pace workouts are tough physically, but they are short relatively speaking. To run two hours then break into sub-7:00 pace is not necessarily a walk in the park, so when I say tough in terms of marathon training, I am speaking mentally. Ugh.
That particular Daniels workout is by far the hardest one I do. Takes me a week to fully recover from it. The problem is that the early 4 miles of tempo running seriously depletes your glycogen. Top that off with your 2 mile warm up and then 10 miles after the tempo running and your glycogen is gone. This is a deliberate attempt to force you to hit the wall. Then, after doing so, you try to run 2 more miles at tempo pace. I never make it. I end up running more like marathon pace but it feels more like 5K race pace. Very, very difficult to run tempo when your glycogen is gone.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
For marathon training: 20 mile LR. Run first 45 minutes at GA, then run tempo (15k pace) for 30 minutes, 45 minutes again at GA, then back to tempo for another 30 minutes. Finish whatever is left at GA. I got this workout from a friend, 56 years old, who ran a 3:13 last year.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
Maybe I'm not so tough. That'd be 22ish miles w/ 10 @ tempo. That would significantly impact the mileage I could do the rest of the week. Not sure how you people do this stuff.
Smaller By The Day
I have to do this again in 3 wks. YAY! When I tried it over the winter, it was ugly and made me second guess my paces. Luckily it was for a half. So, I felt okay not making it all the way through.
Improvements
Weight 100 pounds lost
5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)
10K 48:59 April 2013
HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013
MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013