Beginners and Beyond

12

Peak and base mileage, and training for debut marathon (question) (Read 109 times)

Awood_Runner


Smaller By The Day

    Okay.  So there's a debate going on in my head right now, as I enter my 4th week of phase 1 of Jack Daniels Plan A training plan.  Part of me is saying that with my level of experience, and still being close to 220 pounds I should stay at my current mileage.  The other part of me is saying, "Hey!  This feels great.  Run more miles!"

     

    Just a bit of background.  I've been running consistently for about a year.  I've done a lot of running in my day, but typically for other sports, or I've had those moments in life where I just decided to run a bit here an there.  It was never anything like what I'm doing now.  I think years of sports have helped prepare me for the pounding, but I'm not going to kid myself and say that I can do what someone who's been running for years can do.  I'm not delusional.

     

    My first HM was last November, and I ramped up from about 15 to 42 miles per week.  This winter I used Jack Daniels Plan A for a HM, and built a base of 42 miles per week for a 16 week abbreviated version of the plan.  I did end up making my peak mileage 48 miles.

     

    After my February HM, I was getting in miles where ever I could without a training plan, but I was getting ready for my wedding.  I has weeks that were 28 miles, and weeks that were over 40.  I even had a 50 mile week.

     

    Well, the wedding is out of the way.  I ran a 5K on the first of June that I felt I needed to run, and I came home and went for a run.  I've been working on phase I ever since.  I've run 51miles, 51 miles, 53 miles.  Granted, some of those miles were with my wife at her easy pace, but you can look at my training log and see that most were at my easy pace.  My legs feel strong.  I did bruise my foot by tying my shoe too tight like an idiot, but that hasn't slowed me down.  I still get up at 5 AM everyday ready to go.  My paces aren't suffering.  I'm not suffering.

     

    1) Does anybody see any reason that I shouldn't bump up the mileage one more time before completing phase I?  (inexperience, etc)

    2) What would you base peak mileage on?  It's probably in the book somewhere, but I'm reading it again and I know some of you know it better than I do.

    3) Once I choose a mileage, would it be wrong to adjust that upward later in the training cycle?

     

    By the way, the race is November 2nd.  I figured I'd quite having this battle in my head, and let someone else kick it around a bit.

    Improvements

    Weight 100 pounds lost

    5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

    10K 48:59 April 2013

    HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

    MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

    meaghansketch


      How many hours are you putting in a week?

       

      Lydiard mentions a max of about 9 1/2- 10 1/2 hours running per week-- for me that's up to about 60 miles, and your times are for the most part in the same ballpark as mine.  Edging up to about 60 mpw is probably doable for you if you're feeling good at 50-53 miles per week.  Give yourself a cutback week once in a while and monitor how you're feeling.

      Up next: Front Runners New York LGBT Pride 5-mile  06/28 |  NYRR Team Championships: Women (5M) 08/02

      Goal race: NYCRUNS Haunted Island 10K 10/25

      Awood_Runner


      Smaller By The Day

        meaghansketch - Last week, I put in about 8 1/2 because I ran more solo runs.  I slow down when I run with the wife, but it's totally worth it.  So, hitting 60 and staying within those parameters seems doable.  I keep reminding myself that once the quality workouts begin, JD only has you hit peak mileage a handful of times.  There are weeks where you're only at 70% of that.  So, I guess that would count as a cutback.

        Improvements

        Weight 100 pounds lost

        5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

        10K 48:59 April 2013

        HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

        MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

          I'm with Meaghan although it also depends on how hard you are running.

           

          Every year, I pick out a week to go over 100 miles.  During that week, I do nothing but jog so I end up on my feet more like 13-14 hours but that's tolerable because it is all at an easy pace.  Once I start inserting some speed, I find I need to limit it to a peak of about 10 hours and I really can't sustain that more than a couple of weeks before I need a week of 7-8 hours.  These days, that translates to sustainable weeks of 60-70 during speed phases of my training and 70-80 during endurance phases with peaks of 70-80 and 80-90 respectively but with cutback weeks of 40-50 and 50-60.

           

          I like the Daniels plans but I don't follow his percentage of peak mileage recommendations.  I just try to get in as many miles as I can each week given my life schedule and how my legs feel that week.

          Short term goal: 17:59 5K

          Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

          Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).


          just a simple cat

            bump..bump..bump it up!

             

            Running is stupid


            Bad Ass

              I agree with Meaghan.  Continue adding miles with cutback weeks and you should be fine.  If I remember, Daniels lets you peak some of the workouts so you should be able to ramp the mileage up during the training.

               

              Good luck!

              Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

              Blog

              "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

              Awood_Runner


              Smaller By The Day

                I just got back from my second run of the day, and I'm happy with the responses I got while I was gone.  Thanks guys.  Of course, I'm always looking for the honest answer, but that doesn't mean that you don't secretly hope to get the answer you want to hear.  I really do like the sound of 60, but wanted to make sure that I wasn't making a bad decision just because it was exciting.

                 

                LTH - I noticed that on the weeks that Daniels really drops the mileage, he tends to throw in some of the hardest workouts.  So, I tend to stick to the percentages once I get into the meat of the program.  The weeks that are 100% of your peak, tend have an easy long run and moderately challenging medium long run.  Based on his quality point system it seems to make sense, but I can see where your coming from too.  My family consists of me, my wife and a dog.  I do travel a lot for work, but I know where all of the bike trails, jogging trails, etc. are.  The only time I have a problem is when I'm taking customers out for drinks or something, and I have to squeeze in a run before hand, and then get up in the morning and try to squeeze in another workout.  Ugh!

                Improvements

                Weight 100 pounds lost

                5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                10K 48:59 April 2013

                HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                  I have nothing to add. I just wanted to say that some of those workouts are no joke. Maybe if I tried some of them, I'd feel like the joke was on me!

                  Awood_Runner


                  Smaller By The Day

                    I'm not going to lie.  Some of those workouts really kicked my ass when training for my last half.  Toward the end though, I was getting better at them.  I think this time through will be even better.

                    Improvements

                    Weight 100 pounds lost

                    5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                    10K 48:59 April 2013

                    HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                    MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                    meaghansketch


                      I'm not going to lie.  Some of those workouts really kicked my ass when training for my last half.  Toward the end though, I was getting better at them.  I think this time through will be even better.

                       

                      I started Daniels' A plan for one of my first halves.  I was a much weaker runner then, but yeah, that's some serious running.  The fairly long quality runs just make you think, 'and then he wants me to do WHAT?'

                       

                      I think I've been too scared since then to go back to Daniels.  That A plan is not for the faint of heart.  Much respect to anyone doing those types of workouts.  Maybe one day I'll have the courage to give it another go.

                      Up next: Front Runners New York LGBT Pride 5-mile  06/28 |  NYRR Team Championships: Women (5M) 08/02

                      Goal race: NYCRUNS Haunted Island 10K 10/25

                      So_Im_a_Runner


                      Go figure

                        Okay.  So there's a debate going on in my head right now, as I enter my 4th week of phase 1 of Jack Daniels Plan A training plan.  Part of me is saying that with my level of experience, and still being close to 220 pounds I should stay at my current mileage.  The other part of me is saying, "Hey!  This feels great.  Run more miles!"

                         

                        Just a bit of background.  I've been running consistently for about a year.  I've done a lot of running in my day, but typically for other sports, or I've had those moments in life where I just decided to run a bit here an there.  It was never anything like what I'm doing now.  I think years of sports have helped prepare me for the pounding, but I'm not going to kid myself and say that I can do what someone who's been running for years can do.  I'm not delusional.

                         

                        My first HM was last November, and I ramped up from about 15 to 42 miles per week.  This winter I used Jack Daniels Plan A for a HM, and built a base of 42 miles per week for a 16 week abbreviated version of the plan.  I did end up making my peak mileage 48 miles.

                         

                        After my February HM, I was getting in miles where ever I could without a training plan, but I was getting ready for my wedding.  I has weeks that were 28 miles, and weeks that were over 40.  I even had a 50 mile week.

                         

                        Well, the wedding is out of the way.  I ran a 5K on the first of June that I felt I needed to run, and I came home and went for a run.  I've been working on phase I ever since.  I've run 51miles, 51 miles, 53 miles.  Granted, some of those miles were with my wife at her easy pace, but you can look at my training log and see that most were at my easy pace.  My legs feel strong.  I did bruise my foot by tying my shoe too tight like an idiot, but that hasn't slowed me down.  I still get up at 5 AM everyday ready to go.  My paces aren't suffering.  I'm not suffering.

                         

                        1) Does anybody see any reason that I shouldn't bump up the mileage one more time before completing phase I?  (inexperience, etc)

                        2) What would you base peak mileage on?  It's probably in the book somewhere, but I'm reading it again and I know some of you know it better than I do.

                        3) Once I choose a mileage, would it be wrong to adjust that upward later in the training cycle?

                         

                        By the way, the race is November 2nd.  I figured I'd quite having this battle in my head, and let someone else kick it around a bit.

                        Nobody really addressed this, so I thought I'd bring it up.  I think it's absolutely okay to adjust your mileage during the cycle.  Basically, I believe that there are two ways to address and improve your performance:  more speed, or more volume.  I wouldn't think about increasing both during the same cycle though.  Considering how Daniels basis workouts on percentages, you'd have to be careful not to be doing both at the same time.

                         

                        That being said, I'm generally of the opinion that the more easy miles you can run, the better.  So, if you can look at what you would have been doing for speed work and keep that the same based off your peak of 60, then I'd say it's safe to think about adding more easy miles if you're feeling good after a solid month or two at higher mileages.  Another way to add the miles is to think about bringing in recovery pace runs, which I don't recall if Daniels has or not.  I used that pace for the first time in my last marathon cycle (peaked at 109 miles), and really found it a great way for me to shake out my legs and easily add more miles.

                        PRs:  Marathon (2:49xx; '13)  Half (1:25xx; '12) 10k (40:26; '11) 5mi (29:23; '13) 5k (17:33; '13)

                        Awood_Runner


                        Smaller By The Day

                          That's good stuff right there.  Thanks SIAR.

                          Improvements

                          Weight 100 pounds lost

                          5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                          10K 48:59 April 2013

                          HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                          MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                          Longboat


                          Letting off steam

                            Agree with SIAR - particularly in stepping up to a marathon.  The more easy miles the better, and keep the speedier stuff down.  My guess is you'll be OK with mid to high 50's, maybe 60, but don't push yourself over the top.  The mileage build is relentless, and will -- is designed to -- wear you down  until sharpening phase.

                             

                            Daniels doesn't spell out recovery pace, but "E" pace is "running easily" -- whatever that is on the day.  Don't ever feel you're going too slow  on an E pace run.

                            Neil

                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Nearly back to 100% 6 months after Achilles surgery. Now at 35 50 mpw.

                            Base building time!

                            Awood_Runner


                            Smaller By The Day

                              Ran with the wife and dog this morning.  I typically consider that to be recovery miles, and its always one of my favorite runs Big grin

                              Improvements

                              Weight 100 pounds lost

                              5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                              10K 48:59 April 2013

                              HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                              MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                              paulski66


                              miscreant

                                bump..bump..bump it up!

                                 

                                +1

                                 

                                More miles = more endurance. And honestly, the only thing you really need to worry about for your first marathon is endurance.

                                 

                                And btw, the Monumental is a great race. I've run it that last three years, and collected my first ever BQ there three years ago. Just be prepared for that boring stretch late in the race; it can be quite demoralizing.

                                 

                                 

                                I'm happy, hope you're happy too...

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