Beginners and Beyond

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Best way to increase next year's mileage without any injuries.......... (Read 560 times)

FreeSoul87


Runs4Sanity

      I am trying to work things out to prevent any possible injuries next year, I plan on 2 Half Marathons and my first full Marathon in November along with some 5ks and 10ks. This year I will hit just under 400 miles (due to an injury in the Fall). This month I am going to hit 80 miles, November saw 61 miles, October saw 27, September 64.4 and August 66.2, July 39.2 miles. So far the injury from September and October is gone, and I feel my pace increasing even with the distances and I feel great. Looking over my plans next year, I am estimating around 1,200 miles and I don't know if that is an okay increase or too big of an increase.
           Over the course of my 18 week training schedule for the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon starting June 24 and ending November, I will run around 706.3 miles (not including any possible breaks, rests or issues).
           That is leaving out about 34 weeks of the year, and my aim each month next year (excluding the months I will be training for the Marathon) is between 60-80 miles a month. That would be roughly 550 miles and that would give me 1,256 or so miles next year......... is that too much compared to the just under 400 this year? Looking over this and thinking, I will probably take one week of rest every other month before training begins or drop the mileage back just a little bit, and then after the Marathon I will probably take 2 weeks off (maybe a couple 3 milers in there) and come back slowly to avoid any injury if I am not already injured by then. Again I am just trying to work things out and plan it so I have a great year with no injuries if possible, I do intend on listening to my body and not going overboard but if there is any advice WHATSOEVER that anyone could give me, that would be awesome and very much appreciated, even if the advice is to cut back at the beginning of the year maybe, or stick to my training plan and just be careful. Anything would be appreciated.

    *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

    PRs

    5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

    10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

    15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

    13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

     


    Bad Ass

      It will all depend on what you type of mileage you were doing prior to your injury.  It is quite a steep increase in mileage but if you had some more years of running, it might not be that bad.  Also, weren't you pregnant during part of 2012?

       

      I would just plan on executing your plan but listen to your body and follow what it says.  If it says take a break, you take a break.  I remember I increased 500 miles between one year and the next but I had prior years of running under my belt.

      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

      Blog

      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

      FreeSoul87


      Runs4Sanity

        It will all depend on what you type of mileage you were doing prior to your injury.  It is quite a steep increase in mileage but if you had some more years of running, it might not be that bad.  Also, weren't you pregnant during part of 2012?

         

        I would just plan on executing your plan but listen to your body and follow what it says.  If it says take a break, you take a break.  I remember I increased 500 miles between one year and the next but I had prior years of running under my belt.

         

        Yeah I was pregnant from like June 2011 to April 2012 and then immediately began training for my 2nd Half 6 weeks later (the HM was 6 months later) and running it, I injured either my right quad or groin, I am sure because my body was still recovering from pregnancy. I started running in 2010, so far my total mileage on RW (not sure if I have logged all of it or not) is around 900 or so miles. Right now I am just slowly increasing my weekly mileage to between 20-25 (17-22 right now) and hoping to be comfortably around 30-35 mpw by June of next year when my training starts. If I feel any pain or discomfort that extends past the first mile or 5 minutes of each run (if at all) or the day or 2 after an increase in my long run, I plan to drop by and maybe take 2 or 3 days of rest with some strength training which always seems to help.

        *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

        PRs

        5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

        10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

        15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

        13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

         


        Bad Ass

          That is something you need to consider.  You've done very low mileage for 2-3 years and all of a sudden you want to triplicate the mileage.  I would personally pick two HMs this year and leave the marathon for the year after, but if you are gung ho on doing it, do not repeat what happened during your HM post pregnancy.  Sounds like that injury could've been too much too soon.

           

          60-80 miles a month is 20mpw or less, no?  That is too low for marathon training.  If you can build the mileage safely to start training for the marathon, I would choose one of Hal Higdon marathon training plans, look at it, and try to be easily running around the mpw at the beginning of the plan by then.

          Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

          Blog

          "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

          FreeSoul87


          Runs4Sanity

            My training plan came from Amby Burfoot's edited Complete book of Running, though I am giving myself 19 weeks instead of 18. I figure though this month hits 70, I might keep it at 70 in January, increase my long run from 7 miles to 8 miles this weekend and not increase it for 2 or 3 longs runs. Basically each time I increase my long run, I'll run that same amount for 2 or 3 times unless I feel really comfortable by the 2nd time. I am doing the Intermediate plan (25-30 miles per week) with the first long run starting at 10 miles. I figure if I just slowly increase my mileage for the next 5-6 months I should be comfortable up around 30-35 miles per week by the time I start the training in June. That is as long as nothing happens.

            *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

            PRs

            5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

            10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

            15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

            13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

             

            FreeSoul87


            Runs4Sanity

              My training plan came from Amby Burfoot's edited Complete book of Running, though I am giving myself 19 weeks instead of 18. I figure though this month hits 70, I might keep it at 70 in January, increase my long run from 7 miles to 8 miles this weekend and not increase it for 2 or 3 longs runs. Basically each time I increase my long run, I'll run that same amount for 2 or 3 times unless I feel really comfortable by the 2nd time. I am doing the Intermediate plan (25-30 miles per week) with the first long run starting at 10 miles. I figure if I just slowly increase my mileage for the next 5-6 months I should be comfortable up around 30-35 miles per week by the time I start the training in June. That is as long as nothing happens.

               

              Actually, I have my training plan on here and I don't think it is private if you want to take a look at it. The more I think about it, I just want to complete the marathon even if I have to walk a little, I don't know if I want to really stick to a training plan but maybe just keep increasing my long runs until I am comfortable running between 17-20 mile long runs (not every weekend but maybe every other weekend or every 3 weeks do a long run between 17-20 miles). I'd like to keep my easy runs (2 a week) at 5 miles while around April after the St. Louis Half adding a 4th run in there that will be like a tempo run between 7 and 10 miles. I am still working through the plan, but I want to comfortably increase my mileage, prepare myself to finish the marathon and not worry about a PR for my first time. I am gung ho about this marathon because it is on November 2, the day before my 26th birthday and I feel extremely set on celebrating my 26th birthday by running 26 ( point 2) miles.... as cheesy as it sounds.

              *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

              PRs

              5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

              10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

              15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

              13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

               


              Muddling through

                My training plan came from Amby Burfoot's edited Complete book of Running, though I am giving myself 19 weeks instead of 18. I figure though this month hits 70, I might keep it at 70 in January, increase my long run from 7 miles to 8 miles this weekend and not increase it for 2 or 3 longs runs. Basically each time I increase my long run, I'll run that same amount for 2 or 3 times unless I feel really comfortable by the 2nd time. I am doing the Intermediate plan (25-30 miles per week) with the first long run starting at 10 miles. I figure if I just slowly increase my mileage for the next 5-6 months I should be comfortable up around 30-35 miles per week by the time I start the training in June. That is as long as nothing happens.

                Getting your mileage up to 30-35 mpw between now and late June shouldn't be a problem, but continuing to increase to marathon level mileage may not be advisable despite getting your plan from Burfoot's Complete Book of Running.  The biggest concern would be a recurrence of your injury, though I didn't see anything about how the injury occurred or what type of injury it was. I'd also be concerned about the plan itself because low mileage plans tend to emphasize reliance on the weekend long run and from my observations that's a common cause of injuries.

                2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                MA runner girl


                  Speaking from personal experience, I would not run a marathon on such a low base. Especially given that you've already been injured on low miles. I started training for my first marathon with similar mileage. About a month before I developed PF and had to take the taper off completely in hopes that it would heal. Unfortunately it did not and the marathon was the most painful 26 miles I've ever run. Not to mention, I just didn't have the endurance to complete the distance and death marched it in from about 18 miles. I have yet to run another marathon (that was fall 2010), though I was training for another one when I got pregnant this summer. I vowed to never run another one without a proper base, and had a consistent 6-8 months at 35-40 mpw before I started Pfitz 18-55 in June. I felt 100% better, stronger, and more capable this summer. Unfortunately (or fortunately! Smile ) I didn't get to see my training come together on race day, but I know I would have run a MUCH stronger race.

                   

                  I would run a few halves this year, stay healthy, build your mileage SLOWLY and look forward to a 2014 marathon with a much better base. Now I was given that advice before I ran my first, and obviously didn't listen, but I really wish I had.

                  PRs: 5k - 22:29, half marathon - 1:47:39

                  RSX


                    My next marathon is 8+ months away, and I am averaging 35 miles now. I agree about building a better base but at the same point be careful about the 10% rule from week to week. My injury history mostly happened when I didn't follow that rule coming back from setbacks. You may want to schedule another half in there somewhere also.

                    FreeSoul87


                    Runs4Sanity

                       What if I change the plan a little, more of a run/walk split rather than full on running (during the marathon, and the long run days during the training)? I don't really have to run the whole thing, especially if I don't feel it would be a good idea. Right now I am just so darn excited and stubbornly determined to run this particular marathon next year because 1: to celebrate my 26 birthday by running 26 (.2) miles, 2: most likely it will be my only marathon as I prefer HM's. Of course I've never ran longer than 13.1 so I don't know if I'd like longer distances or not, but I really want to celebrate my 26th birthday by doing one that will probably be my only one.

                        Basically my injury was most likely increasing my mileage when I shouldn't have, everything was going awesome in July, I felt great while my Team 13 was still running 3 miles in July I increased my 2 weekly runs to 4 while sticking to their long run distance. In August after the 5k/10k race they increased their 2 weekly runs from 3 to 4 and I increased mine to 5, then in September during the 15k race I felt some pain in my upper right quad or groin but not much to stop me. I then increased one of my weekly runs to 6 for 2 weeks and when I ran my 10 mile long run that was when I felt it, the following week was supposed to be 11 but I could only do 9 and that was awful so I took the rest of the following weeks easy and rested before the HM on October 7 which hurt a lot. I am guessing my injury came from the fact that I had just given birth after 10 months of pregnancy, my groin, tendon, IT band right up to the top were recovering from all that stretching during the labor and birth, and I asked/demanded way too much from them too soon.

                      Other than celebrating my birthday, I really want to have my weekly long runs ranging between 10-15 miles by summer next year, that is my goal. I want 13.1 miles to be easy for me, because I really enjoy the Half Marathon distance, but I really would like to have one full Marathon under my belt and preferably before I get pregnant again (knowing DH and my luck, that could be anytime) Big grin

                      *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                      PRs

                      5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

                      10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

                      15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

                      13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                       

                      hugsy


                        It sounds like you are determined to run the marathon, no matter what we say. So, start by adding 1 or 2 more days of running to your schedule. You are putting too much emphasis on the long run each week. I am glad that you are backing off from 17 to 20 mile  long runs to 10-15 mile runs instead. Listen to your body this time; don't push through pain like you did earlier this year.


                        Muddling through

                           What if I change the plan a little, more of a run/walk split rather than full on running (during the marathon, and the long run days during the training)? I don't really have to run the whole thing, especially if I don't feel it would be a good idea. Right now I am just so darn excited and stubbornly determined to run this particular marathon next year because 1: to celebrate my 26 birthday by running 26 (.2) miles, 2: most likely it will be my only marathon as I prefer HM's. Of course I've never ran longer than 13.1 so I don't know if I'd like longer distances or not, but I really want to celebrate my 26th birthday by doing one that will probably be my only one.

                            Basically my injury was most likely increasing my mileage when I shouldn't have, everything was going awesome in July, I felt great while my Team 13 was still running 3 miles in July I increased my 2 weekly runs to 4 while sticking to their long run distance. In August after the 5k/10k race they increased their 2 weekly runs from 3 to 4 and I increased mine to 5, then in September during the 15k race I felt some pain in my upper right quad or groin but not much to stop me. I then increased one of my weekly runs to 6 for 2 weeks and when I ran my 10 mile long run that was when I felt it, the following week was supposed to be 11 but I could only do 9 and that was awful so I took the rest of the following weeks easy and rested before the HM on October 7 which hurt a lot. I am guessing my injury came from the fact that I had just given birth after 10 months of pregnancy, my groin, tendon, IT band right up to the top were recovering from all that stretching during the labor and birth, and I asked/demanded way too much from them too soon.

                          Other than celebrating my birthday, I really want to have my weekly long runs ranging between 10-15 miles by summer next year, that is my goal. I want 13.1 miles to be easy for me, because I really enjoy the Half Marathon distance, but I really would like to have one full Marathon under my belt and preferably before I get pregnant again (knowing DH and my luck, that could be anytime) Big grin

                          Going up to 15 miles for a long run when your weekly mileage is only 30-35 is way too much. Look at the length of your LR compared to your weekly mileage when you got injured. When your LR gets up 40% or more of your weekly mileage you're placing more stress on your body than it's used to unless you're running only 3 times a week and your other two runs are more than half your LR distance. Consider including a semi-long run of 65-75% of your LR as a mid-week run.

                          2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                          FreeSoul87


                          Runs4Sanity

                            Going up to 15 miles for a long run when your weekly mileage is only 30-35 is way too much. Look at the length of your LR compared to your weekly mileage when you got injured. When your LR gets up 40% or more of your weekly mileage you're placing more stress on your body than it's used to unless you're running only 3 times a week and your other two runs are more than half your LR distance. Consider including a semi-long run of 65-75% of your LR as a mid-week run.

                             

                            Did I mention I suck at math, this whole percentage thing loses me unfortunately. Not sure how many days I am running, one week I will run Sunday (LR) / Tuesday / Thursday / Saturday if that is considered a full week, the following week I will run Monday / Wednesday / Friday / Sunday. Pretty much I run every other day right now, with occasional 2 day rest periods either because I feel like it, the weather (rare) or just can't get it in there. I would like to add an extra day soon, maybe in February, right now my longs run is on the weekend, one of my weekly runs is 5 miles and the other one will occasionally be 6 miles depending on how I feel. Tomorrow I am going to hit 8 miles, so according to the Dailymile that apparently starts each week on Monday, I will have ran 24 miles this week (Monday was 6 miles, Wednesday 5 and Friday 5) and next week I will probably do Tuesday 5 and Thursday 5 and run my long run at 8 again. I hope to hit 10 mile long runs by the first week of February where I might add another run somewhere in that mix (not sure where though), speaking of the semi-long run of 65-75% of my LR, would that be good in between my two weekly runs?
                              I do want to run this marathon coming up, I really, really, really do............... so bad that it is going to be an all out war of will power between me, myself and I if I have to choose not to.  I've got myself so worked up about it Undecided
                              I've been looking for other HM's, but I don't know how far DH would be willing to travel for me to run the races and there isn't a lot of them in my area, my April Half is in St. Louis which is 180 miles away from us, which is closer by 9 miles than Indianapolis. I haven't signed up for the Indy Monumental Marathon yet, can't until January 1, but I don't know if I am going to take that bite this soon especially with everyone warning me........... maybe I could just keep working on my mileage building and see where I am at by June and go from there?

                            *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                            PRs

                            5k - 24:40 (7:57 min/mile pace) 

                            10k - 54:39 (8:48 min/mile pace)

                            15k -1:24:04 (9:01 min/mile pace)

                            13.1 - 1:56:38 (8:54 min/mile pace)  New PR as of 10/04/2014 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                             


                            Muddling through

                              FS87  - Many runners successfully complete marathons on programs like the one you've chosen. Many others complete the marathon but it's not a pleasant experience. Some never get to the starting line. With your past injury, which seems to be related to your LR on relatively low mileage, that's a factor you need to consider carefully. I'd suggest looking at training programs, e.g Hansons, that rely less on the long run and more on cumulative mileage. In the meantime, the sooner you can safely build your base and keep it at higher levels before formal marathon training, the better prepared you'll be. I'd much rather see you at 30-35 mpw by the beginning of May if possible, then have a solid 7-8 weeks at 35 +/- mpw with maybe an 8 and a 10-11 mile run weekly running 5 days a week instead of a 13-15 mile LR and a bunch of shorter runs.

                              2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race


                              No more marathons

                                Freesoul,

                                I'm a firm believer that the only sure way of not reaching a goal is to never set out to achieve it.

                                You sound like you have a lot of determination and that will go a long way.

                                 

                                Just for chuckles, I went back to my old paper log books, and entered all the data for the 17 weeks prior to my first marathon.  That was back in 1981.  What I found was that I did everything wrong.  My workouts were too fast, some of my long runs were 60 to 70% of my total weekly miles, and I averaged 33 miles per week, with a low of 12 and a high of 60.  The end result was a 3:01:31 personal best, never to be matched again.  (I have a report in my log that shows the weekly mileage)

                                Do I recommend this training plan?  Never!  Let me repeat - never!  But what it does show is that you can't count anything out.

                                 

                                Your 18 week training plan is an average of almost 40 miles per week, and the ramp up to that 18 week plan looks doable - of course that all depends on no curves in the road - like injury or illness that would sideline you for long periods.  As for getting there off of the current base (or lack thereof) that you have, well using the conservative increase of no more than 10% per week, it only takes 10 weeks to go from 20 miles to 50 miles - so no problem there.

                                 

                                Good luck as you move towards your goal.

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