Beginners and Beyond

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Marathon training (Read 128 times)

Venomized


Drink up moho's!!

    Pfitz is a good plan but its a lot of miles and a huge time commitment, especially for us slower runners.  And I am gonna go against the grain and say that you possibly are low on weekly mileage for a successful Pfitz plan.  The build up is relentless in the beginning as it takes you from where you are at now to 50 or so miles in a matter of about 6 weeks.  You would be better served to build now so you can go into Pfitz as a cutback for the first 2 weeks of the program.

     

    Hanson's looks like a decent plan but people knock it thinking that since the LR is only 16 miles then its a lower mileage plan when actually its a bit more miles than Pfitz and arguably a harder plan with the 2 quality workouts each week along with a long run.

     

    Higdon plans, can't go wrong with them but they do tend to be weekend heavy in the mileage department with a long and longer run each weekend.

     

    Can't speak of the Glover plan.

     

    Hudson looks decent but it relies on hill sprints.  If you are in a flat area you will need to figure out how to supplement the hill workouts.

     

    All the plans have strengths and weaknesses and in the end there isn't a best plan.  There are roughly 500,000 people that finish marathons each year so that equates to about 400,000 ways to train for a marathon.  The trick is figuring out what is best for you.  What are you willing to sacrifice in a personal and family life for what you want out of your running?

    cmb4314


      I did Glover for my second marathon (my first decently trained marathon) and Pfitz for my third (which I didn't run due to injury, but that was due to an ice patch and not Pfitz).

       

      I found Glover to be easier in terms of speedwork (Pfitz's tempo runs and long MP runs are quite challenging) and also in terms of scheduling - the mileage is not too different between the two programs, but Glover has you spread it out over 6 days, so you are running more 6-8 mile runs.  Pfitz has that medium-long run midweek of 11-14 miles, which proved a challenge to do on a weekday.

       

      I actually combined two of the Glover programs together when I did it - I remember thinking one of them seemed too easy, and the other too hard, so I did something in between.

       

      I also shortened any runs over 20 miles down to 20s when I was doing Glover, and stuck the miles on other runs.  I always feel like once I get over 3 hours, the remaining miles do little for my fitness, and really just increase my chance at injury.  I go to 20, which takes me 2:20-2:25 (when it's not hot out), for the mental aspect of it, but beyond that I avoid the extra stress.

      My wildly inconsistent PRs:

      5k: 24:36 (10/20/12)  

      10k: 52:01 (4/28/12)  

      HM: 1:50:09 (10/27/12)

      Marathon: 4:19:11 (10/2/2011) 

      LRB


      Dreamer

        I didn't follow a plan for either of my marathons.  I was still learning about myself as a runner and just did not want to be bogged down with someone else's schedule so to speak.

         

        Instead, I laid out in advance the type and lengths of runs I was going to do based on what when and where I wanted to do them.  So you could say I followed a plan, but it was my own.

         

        This year, I will most likely do Daniels (or a Daniels hybrid) for marathon training.  Daniels appeals to me because there is not set amount of mileage that you must run.  His marathon plan is based on quality workouts, running 6 to 7 days a week and you fill in the mileage yourself.

         

        Ultimately, whatever "plan" you choose believe in it 100%.  If you believe in what you are doing, mentally it will help you when you are struggling both in training and on race day.

         

        And make no mistake about it, where the marathon is concerned you will struggle.  That applies to mid pack runners, back pack and rat pack!

        MRT: This too shall pass

        happylily


          Ultimately, whatever "plan" you choose believe in it 100%.  If you believe in what you are doing, mentally it will help you when you are struggling both in training and on race day.

           

          And make no mistake about it, where the marathon is concerned you will struggle.  That applies to mid pack runners, back pack and rat pack!

           

          +1! and +100!

          PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                  Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

          4 years racing, 15 marathons, 15 BQs     


          Muddling through

             

            +1! and +100!

            This brings to mind a somewhat obscure mathematical formula.  The ! is used to indicate factorial notation, e.g. the product of the number and all positive integers less than it. For example 5! = 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 120.

            So 100! = 9.3326215444×10157

            So, happylily, that's a very positive affirmation!!!

            2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

            LRB


            Dreamer

              This brings to mind a somewhat obscure mathematical formula.  The ! is used to indicate factorial notation, e.g. the product of the number and all positive integers less than it. For example 5! = 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 120.

              So 100! = 9.3326215444×10157

              So, happylily, that's a very positive affirmation!!!

               

              I preferred reading over math as a yute.  Looking at that equation, not much has changed in my thinking lol!

              MRT: This too shall pass


              Mostly Harmless

                I'm injury prone and used Pfitz for my second marathon. When I felt like some of the speed work was too much for me I would run the miles at my target MP instead.  It worked well for me.

                 "Address the process rather than the outcome.
                Then, the outcome becomes more likely." - Robert Fripp

                happylily


                  This brings to mind a somewhat obscure mathematical formula.  The ! is used to indicate factorial notation, e.g. the product of the number and all positive integers less than it. For example 5! = 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 120.

                  So 100! = 9.3326215444×10157

                  So, happylily, that's a very positive affirmation!!!

                   

                  Hmm... yes. Mais bien sûr. I totally agree with the obscure formula. Big grin

                  PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                          Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                  4 years racing, 15 marathons, 15 BQs     

                    I did Glover for my first and Pfitz 55, 70, and 70 for my subsequent 3 marathons.

                     

                    You've received a lot of advice, so I guess I'll just add to it to give you more to consider/weed through. I'm with FSocks, but it's likely difficult to know what works for you since this is your first. I think you should just look over all the plans, and consider which one aligns most closely with the way you like to train. Did you use a plan for your half marathons? Marathon training shouldn't be that different, aside from longer long runs, and maybe a longer mid-week run.


                    YAYpril - B-Plus

                      Lots of good information here. Thanks, guys. Your feedback is really appreciated.

                       

                      Venomized, hills are not an issue where I live. Smile Thanks for your opinion on Pfitz.

                       

                      cmb, I saw that with Glover, too - I feel like I'd have to combine stuff from two different plans. Good to know that you had a good marathon on his plan.

                       

                      B, I'm really bad at following plans. I haven't really followed one for any of my HMs. This training cycle has been the most successful for me, and all I'm really doing is a midweek medium-long run (around 8 miles on Wednesdays) and a long run (10-12 miles) on the weekend, with the other days peppered with 4-6 mile runs. I'd love to follow that same style (with longer LRs and MLRs, obviously) with marathon training. I think Glover was the closest as far as personal preference goes.

                      workinprogress11


                        I used Higdon Intermediate 2 for my first, but added another 5-7 miles during the week so that the long run wasn't quite as big of a percentage of the total mileage.  I think I topped out at around 53 miles.  I also don't really like speedwork, but once or twice a week when the training run was feeling good, I would throw in some faster miles in the middle or do a fast finish/progression sort of thing.  I never planned this in advance so I was less intimidated by it.  If a week went by without it, no big deal.

                         

                        I wish you the best!


                        YAYpril - B-Plus

                          Workinprogress, thanks! Good to know you survived without a lot of formal speedwork. Smile

                            Agreed with Venomized in part -- Pfitz plans are geared towards racing the thing, not just finishing it without undue distress.

                             

                            I wouldn't totally shy away from doing some challenging workouts though.  Ramping up to higher mileage should be top priority, but the more quality stuff you work in, the stronger and better prepared you will be to make finishing a breeze.


                            YAYpril - B-Plus

                              Agreed with Venomized in part -- Pfitz plans are geared towards racing the thing, not just finishing it without undue distress.

                               

                              I wouldn't totally shy away from doing some challenging workouts though.  Ramping up to higher mileage should be top priority, but the more quality stuff you work in, the stronger and better prepared you will be to make finishing a breeze.

                               

                              That is a GREAT point. Maybe that's why Pfitz was freaking me out so much. I'll stick with a different plan for this one, and try Pfitz in the future when I have more experience and a better base.


                              Mmmmm...beer

                                I say if you don't want to do speedwork, then don't do it.  Your goal is to finish, and the marathon is all about endurance, so you can just focus on that and have a very successful first marathon.  Then if you want to do it again and want to go faster, you can work on that.

                                 

                                I don't think you have to struggle if you put in the mileage and prepare yourself.  50mpw allowed me to run 26.25 miles on a long run without killing myself, and that was with absolutely zero speedwork, nothing but lots of easy miles.  Run as often as you can, 6-7 days a week if possible, and work on increasing the distance of your daily runs as well as your long run.  You need the time on your feet of the long run, but I think the endurance that you build with increased frequency helps a lot too.

                                -Dave

                                My running blog

                                2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

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