Beginners and Beyond

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'Easy' Pace Quesiton (Read 139 times)

meaghansketch


    meaghansketch - Thank you for your thoughts about the overall mileage.  My plan is a 12 week canned plan that was elongated to 20 weeks.  Before I started this plan, I was running 30 to 40 mpw in the 10:30 mm to 11:00 mm range or GHMP +1:30 to 2:00.  March is a good example of my running habits/capacity.  When I started this plan I thought I was trading lots of long slow miles for fewer faster miles.

     

    I'm now 12 weeks from race day and I think it is time to pivot.  I'll add the suggested 2 mile warm up and cool down to the Tuesday fartklet fun., keep the tempo work where it is at, and double the easy miles with a GHMP +1:00 to 1:30 pace or 10:30mm which is where I was before I started the plan.

     

    As to the sub 2:00 group in the racing forum I stick my head in there from time to time, but I find the multiple conversations really hard to follow.

     

    Thanks all for your help.

     

    Rick

     

     

    OK, I had wondered why your mileage had dropped so much from earlier. That makes some sense. I wouldn't really 'pivot' your training, just slowly begin adding easy miles to get your total mileage back where it was. It looks like your peak week is around 28 mpw; I think that if it was closer to 40 you would be feeling a lot stronger going into your HM.

    Up next: Front Runners New York LGBT Pride 5-mile  06/28 |  NYRR Team Championships: Women (5M) 08/02

    Goal race: NYCRUNS Haunted Island 10K 10/25

    Adam_McAllen


    Beer-and-waffle Powered

      I would break down pretty quickly if I ran all my easy runs at my half-marathon pace +1:00 /mile, it'd be even worse if it was a goal pace.

      In the words of my late-coach : Just hang in there, relax... and at the end of a race anyone you see.....just pass them

      Gray Runner


      Running Bear

        To me, easy paced runs don't mean you won't work hard doing them. I just try to run them at a pace where I am not overly stressed for the given distance. For example, when I get done with an easy paced shorter run of 10 miles or less, my recovery time may only be a 10 minutes and my heart rate will drop to normal levels very quickly. Longer than 10 miles at easy pace and I may need 20 minutes or longer and significant walking cool down time to feel recovered. But even at a 20 + miler at easy pace I don't feel like I am spent for the rest of the day. I can still work hard afterwards. It's a bit of a balance and is not the same for everyone depending on so many things.

        Upcoming races:  
        Mt. Cheaha 50K 2/22
        Georgia Death race 100K 3/15-16
        Sweetwater 50K 4/12
        Cruel Jewel 100 5/16-17
        Make It By Midnight FM 7/XX
        H9 50 mile 8/9
        Georgia Jewel 100 9/27
        Pacing at Pinhoti 100 11/XX
        Dunkin Ridge Trail 50K 11/XX
        Lookout Mtn 50 mile 12/20

        fourouta5


        Healed Hammy

          Just a quick not to say Hi Rick, glad to see you back posting (or I missed some). Hope all is well and GL on your upcoming half.


          You Rang?

            : How did you choose your goal HM pace? Is it based on a PR at a shorter distance, using McMillan? My 5 & 10k PRs indicate between 1:55 and 1:58.

             

            Hi Julie:

             

            I used math to determine my goal half marthon pace.  A sub 2:00 half marathon requires a 9:16 mm pace.  I don't really have any good or recent race day data to drop into McMillan.  I don't race a whole lot.  I'm a relatively new runner.  I'm approaching the end of my second year running.

             

            Also this is the first race that I've used fartleks, tempo runs, or a goal pace.  Before this training cycle, my training just involved running a whole lot, and my race day goal was to break my personal record for the distance.   I'd use the fitness gains from all the training (haphazard as it may be) and break my PR. My last 5k was in October.  My current PR at the half marathon distance was set in January at Disney World in a race that I considered a fun run.  The race was on day 2 of a week long Disney vacation.  I had no desire to hurt myself or wear myself out on day 2, so I took it easy.  At 2:21:20, I set a new PR anyway.

             

            This is the first race that I've entered that I am streching myself and I'll actually race.  I believe I can run a sub 2:00 half, but As LTH staed above, a two hour half may be beyond my present fitness level.    I'll let y'all know on the afternoon of September 1st.

             

            And 4outa5 - I've been a bit quiet on the board.  the late winter/early spring is the manic time in my practice.  I haven't had a whole lot of time to read and write to the board.

             

            Rick

             

            ETA - I have adjusted the plan.  I have added a long run to every weekend, added a longer warm up and cool down to the fartklet sessions and removed the time references to the easy runs.  I think I was getting hung up on the time on the easy runs.  I was treating them like tempo workouts, just easier tempo work outs.

            Rick 

            PR: 5k 26:17 (10/13) 10k: 57:44 (7/14) HM: 2:11 (11/14) FM: 5:29 (1/14)


            Muddling through

              My current PR at the half marathon distance was set in January at Disney World in a race that I considered a fun run.  The race was on day 2 of a week long Disney vacation.  I had no desire to hurt myself or wear myself out on day 2, so I took it easy.  At 2:21:20, I set a new PR anyway. 

              I tried posting this morning but had some odd formatting problems, so this is a little late in the discussion. I was wondering how you came up with a 2:00 goal. Taking off over 20 minutes in a HM, even if you did run Disney as a fun run, is quite a huge bite to take. Your concerns about whether you are running your easy runs slow enough and experiencing some fatigue prompt me to think your program paces are too aggressive, hence so would your goal pace of 9:00. Something more reasonable may be about 1:30 less than some of your long run (12+ miles) paces, which would put it closer to 9:15-9:30. Come race day run by effort and don't force the pace if it isn't there in the early miles. Even a 10:00 pace (2:11:05) would give you a big PB.

              2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race


              You Rang?

                Thank you for your thoughts George.  A sub 2:00 half marathon may be too ambitious.  It may not.  I'll take a look at my 12 mile easy pace once I start running 12 miles again (over the next month or two) and once I start running easy again (tonight!).

                 

                Rick

                Rick 

                PR: 5k 26:17 (10/13) 10k: 57:44 (7/14) HM: 2:11 (11/14) FM: 5:29 (1/14)

                cmb4314


                  I'm with everyone else who says easy is easy.

                   

                  Before I broke my ankle I ran a 1:50 HM, which is an 8:25 pace, and I usually ran 10:00 +/- 15 seconds per mile for an easy run.  Sometimes a little slower, sometimes a little faster.   So, on average probably 1:30 slower than my HM.   I'd rather go as easy as my legs need to on my easy days, so I can go as hard as I want to on my quality days.

                  My wildly inconsistent PRs:

                  5k: 24:36 (10/20/12)  

                  10k: 52:01 (4/28/12)  

                  HM: 1:50:09 (10/27/12)

                  Marathon: 4:19:11 (10/2/2011) 

                  msmrow


                    I might be the odd one out here, but my "easy" runs are about HMP + 2 min.  This is based on an actual half marathon race time which I believe was the absolute best I could do on that day.  I arrived at this pace for easy runs based largely on what most of the pace calculators out there predicted, and it felt right so I stayed with it.  If I'm REALLY fatigued and running closer to a recovery run, that pace will slow to HMP + 2:45 on occassion...

                     

                    I can't imagine running an "easy" run at HMP + 1:00... That would still be a pretty effortful for me and is in fact my goal marathon pace for a race coming up this fall.


                    Muddling through

                      I'd be hesitant to relate easy pace to HM or marathon pace or any other race pace for that matter. You may find out from experience how they relate to you, but again I would reiterate that easy is an effort not a pace. As an odd example, I recently ran a marathon. I ran my easy pace for the first 11 miles then slowed down to more of a recovery pace. My final average pace was about 45 seconds slower then my easy pace. Coming at it from the other direction my easy pace is about 3 minutes slower than my 5K pace. Why such unusual results? Probably lack of a base for running a reasonable marathon time. My MP was closer to my LR pace and recovery pace than my easy pace.

                      2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                      LRB


                      Dreamer

                        I'd be hesitant to relate easy pace to HM or marathon pace or any other race pace for that matter. 

                         

                        Agreed, my half marathon and marathon times are soft, so they would be of no use to me in that regard.  Also, my easy pace may change depending on what I have done in the days before an easy run.

                         

                        My normal easy pace is around 8:20 (loosely based on Daniels vdot pace table), but an easy run a couple of days after a 10k may produce a pace of 8:35.  Or, one a day after 1 mile race pace repeats may have me running easy at 8:50.  I spent three days days traveling earlier this spring and could not run easy below a 9:00 pace for those first couple of runs back.  On the other side, there are days when 8:18's just roll off without any effort whatsoever.

                         

                        Therefore when I run easy, depending on what I have run that week (or drank the night before), I can expect to see a pace variance of up to 45 seconds, something I understand and make no effort to change.  If you are trying to run easy at a certain pace, then you are likely not running by effort.  But that is just my view on the subject, one of many and they all have merit.

                         

                        If something else works for other people that is quite alright.  We are after all, an experiment of one.

                        Know thyself

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