Beginners and Beyond

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A question on long run pace... (Read 104 times)

Jack K.


uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

    B-Plus: that's exactly what I tried to do today, but the hills at the end of my run slowed me down a bit.

    B-Plus


      B-Plus: that's exactly what I tried to do today, but the hills at the end of my run slowed me down a bit.

       

      That's perfect! That's where effort and common sense come into play.

      Love the Half


        Plugging your HM time into a Daniels calculator yields the following paces:

         

        E - 8:58

        M - 7:40

        T - 7:10

        I - 6:34

        R - 6:10

         

        Here is what I have noticed with myself.  There is no way I can run a marathon at the Daniels M pace.  I might come close on a perfect day but I don't think I'd hit it.  However, this is a training pace and not necessarily a race pace so that's fine.  I typically run a bit (10-15 seconds) faster than my Daniels E pace unless I have some fatigue on my legs.  Then, I might even be slower.  Yesterday and today are good examples.

         

        Yesterday, I did a 20 mile long run.  At Mile 13, I hit a substantial hill that climbed about 200 feet in half a mile and I ran hard down the other side.  I was hoping to finish the last 5 miles hard but I only survived for 2 and had to pull back.  I recovered a bit and then managed 10 x 1 minute hard efforts with 1 minute recoveries.  My legs felt trashed this morning.

         

        I did an easy jog along my regular morning route a week ago and my pace was 8:21.  This morning, my pace was 9:15.  Same level of effort but nearly a minute slower.  My Daniels E pace is 8:01.

         

        With a Daniels E pace of 8:58, I would expect you to be a fair amount quicker than that if your legs were well rested.  If I'm really rested and the temps are good, it's not uncommon for me to end up running 7:35's which is 25 seconds faster than my E pace.  A bit more fatigued though and I'm running maybe 7:50.

         

        So, my best guess is that 8:19 is probably a bit harder than you want to be running assuming you are wanting to run the long run at an easy pace.  Then again, if your legs were really fresh, that's not a whole lot harder.  Maybe shoot for something in the 8:30 range but then put some quality into the long run.  The idea that all long runs should be slow jogs is misguided IMHO.  Do stuff like 10 x 1 minute accelerations to "T" pace with 1 minute recoveries.  Do these after you have 10 miles on your legs and it's harder than it sounds.  You could also do a progression run so, with 14 miles, start slowly and work your way up.  3 miles @ 9:15 (yes, that slowly) + 3 miles @ 8:45 + 3 miles @ 8:15 + 3 miles @ 7:45 + 2 miles @ 7:15.  You'll end up at just about the same overall pace so not too much additional stress but you'll learn how to pick it up even when fatigued.  Or, you could do a fast finish.  Just finish the last 3 miles at "M" pace.  Stuff like that

        Short term goal: 17:59 5K

        Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

        Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

        happylily


          I haven't read the whole thread (but I will), but I just wanted to say this for now: my marathon pace in Boston was 7:53 and my training easy pace before it was anywhere between 8:10 and 8:50. Never slower. Recovery was 9:00 to 9:15. Two weeks after the marathon, I found out that my HM pace was 7:19. Just thought you'd find it interesting. Now back to reading the thread...

           

          EDIT: I said easy pace, but I meant long run pace. Both are usually around the same, but with LR being more in the 8:20/8:50 range and no so close to 8:10.

          PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                  Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

          18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

          happylily


            FWIW, I've trained 12 times with Pfitz marathon plans and I've never followed the 10% to 20% rule. I feel he's talking to much faster runners than any of us here are. I only use McMillan's recommended training paces, and always fall perfectly within his wide range.

            PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                    Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

            18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

            happylily


              Also, I just read now that your GMP is 7:45. I ended up with 7:53, but I had run a very hilly marathon a few weeks before that and Boston isn't exactly the easiest marathon either (not so much because of the hilly course, but the crowd there did slow me down). I feel I could have finished with a  7:40 something pace otherwise. But then, my HM PR was done only two weeks after the marathon, so maybe 7:19 is slower than what I'm actually capable of... Remember that your finish times in the longer distances are not always well aligned with the shorter distances. So are you certain that 7:45 is wise for your marathon, on an 18/55 plan, if your HM pace is 7:19? Go read Floppage's RR in L&O. It looks to me like his goal was over-ambitious and he flopped badly in the last 7 miles... Just be careful with your goal!

              PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                      Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

              18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

              Jack K.


              uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

                Lily: point taken. I will likely my goal pace when the miles start adding up. Like I said, I want to be smart about this.

                 

                LtH: thanks for the advice. Smile

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