Yesterday evening, I went out for a planned progression run. It didn't start well. I intended to start at recovery effort and I was running at recovery pace (about 8:30) but it felt more like easy pace. After two miles, I picked it up to easy pace (about 7:45) but it felt more like marathon effort. More importantly, I felt fat and slow. After another two miles I picked it up to marathon pace (about 6:45) and it felt like a tempo run. I was hoping to go six miles at that pace but after two miserable miles, I thought there was no way I'd make it six. Then, out of nowhere, after three miles at marathon pace, I started clipping off miles at tempo pace (about 6:30) and it still felt like marathon pace. I ran the next three miles in 6:30, 6:30 and 6:35. Then, I ran a half mile at a 6:15 clip. Were it not for that 6:15 paced half mile, I felt like I could easily have gone another couple of miles at 6:30. I finished with a mile cool down that included form drills.
I have no idea how to feel about this workout. On one hand, I started slow and the effort felt "off" for the first 7 miles. Then, for no discernible reason, I just started gliding down the road. My legs are a bit stiff this morning as I would expect but it's just that next day "I had a good workout" feeling. Just a really strange run.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
If I understand correctly, you did not run your first miles based on effort, but rather on pace (your usual paces for each type of workout). Isn't that unusual for you? Sometimes, the body reacts differently from what we expect it to do. Sounds like in the end, it all worked out great for you.
I was wondering, is it normal for your tempo pace to be so close to your marathon pace? Like 15 seconds apart... Mine is like 30-35 seconds apart, is that wrong?
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
I was wondering, is it normal for your tempo pace to be so close to your marathon pace?
Being so deep into the year, on any given day this can be the case for me as it was today. But I feel pretty good about the run despite not really hitting my target pace.
At this point in the season, we are all running on mush for legs, so what once came so much easier earlier this year, now does not.
Still, if you can complete a workout with a decent sustained attempt at that days target pace, I would say it was a good day.
Are we there, yet?
I'm more likely to change how I feel about a workout like that after further reflection than not know how I feel about it.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Smaller By The Day
I just looked at your training log, and it looks like you did a hill workout recently. The last time you posted about struggling during a run was shortly after a hill workout. Is that enough to establish a pattern?
Improvements
Weight 100 pounds lost
5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)
10K 48:59 April 2013
HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013
MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013
Timely topic. I've had some craptastic running the last week or so. On Thursday was the worst. Was supposed to do about 9 at 7:30 pace, I never worry about exact paces but need to be close. For one, garmin was dead when I went to get it. No worries. I'll just run some of known paths where I know the mileage exactly and have my trusty timex. The temp was 95 or so when I started which wasn't ideal to say the least. So I set off anyway. Best I could feel, my pace was ok. Then started feeling the heat. Tougher to do a quality run in the heat. Normally it wouldn't bother me much, but running at an increased pace wasn't easy. Felt ok during the middle miles. Figured I needed about a mile more at the end which really sucked. Funny that I was going over some heat illness training at work earlier in the week so I started thinking about the symptoms. Got home and tried to cool off in shade and some water. Later went to gmap pedometer and traced my route. Turned out to be 9.35 miles. The pace turned out to be 7:28. Still felt weird after the run. One of the tougher ones I've had in a while. On the one hand I was glad it was done and was good for toughening up. On the other hand, the heat is something that can bite you if don't watch it. Until I saw this, I'm basically trying to forget the whole thing and file it away as part of the ups and downs of training.
marathon pr - 3:16
Lily, I generally run all of my easy and recovery runs by effort but I'm fairly tight about the pace ranges for my quality portions. If I'm off by more than about 10 seconds, I'll just bag the workout and run easy. My Daniels "T" pace is 6:26 and my Daniels "M" pace is 6:49 so 6:30 and 6:45 aren't too far off.
Awood, that's a possibility although I have tried diligently to run more hills this year. Even on a lot of my easy runs, I have changed the routes up so that I'm running more hills. Plus, it was Tuesday when I did that hill work and I only ran 5 miles both Wednesday and Thursday so I should have been fully recovered. It is something to think about though and I'll have to see how I feel after my next hill workout.
Ric, it was warm last night (about 75 degrees) but the humidity was decent. Still, it's possible that the heat impacted me more than I knew. But that doesn't explain how I suddenly started running rather effortlessly at tempo pace. Makes no sense.
But that doesn't explain how I suddenly started running rather effortlessly at tempo pace. Makes no sense.
I don't have an explanation, but I've had that happen more than once, in fact at least once during a race when I was just about to bag it after 4 miles and coast in the last 6. It turned out to be overall a pretty good race for me.
In my log, I made a note that this might be a good race lesson for me. If I'm ever lagging in pace and just not feeling it, hang in there and don't give up because, who knows, I may loosen up and run well at some point.
That's a very good point. It happened to me in a half-marathon once. First half was terrible and I wanted to give up, but I kept pushing anyway. Second half was awesome and I almost made up for the bad first half, but finished less than 10 seconds off my then PR.
About your tempo and marathon paces, I always forget that the faster the runner, the smaller the gap between paces. Isn't that right?
Great observation. I'd take the workout as encouraging, knowing that "blah" feelings may simply vanish for no particular reason.