From Competitor Running (link):
"On paper, a session of 8 x 400-meter repeats gives the illusion of an easy workout; but executed properly, these one-lappers can be a real doozy.
The workout, made popular by former marathon world-record holder Rob De Castella of Australia, is as simple as it sounds: eight, one-lap repeats of the track. The pace: it varies (more on this in a bit). The recovery: a scant, but swift, 200-meter float.
So how fast should you run your repeats? De Castella recommends anaerobic threshold pace, or your fastest maintainable speed. For most runners, this roughly translates to a speed that is slightly faster than your current 5K race pace. Doesn’t sound too difficult, right?
Here’s the catch. The recovery between each repeat is a 200-meter, or half a lap, “float” – not a walk or slow jog, but more of a brisk trot. The key to this session is that you never completely recover before starting the next 400-meter interval, and as the workout progresses you’ll be forced to work harder to maintain the same pace at which you started out. This is threshold training at its truest, simulates race surging and will teach your body to recover quickly while running fast.
“As you get fitter, your red line rises from about 80 percent of maximum heartrate to 90-95 percent,” writes world-renowned running coach and top exercise physiologist, Jack Daniels. “Physiologically, threshold training teaches muscle cells to use more oxygen–less lactate is produced. Your body also becomes better at clearing lactate: race-day red line speed rises.”
* Warmup: Run easily for 10-15 minutes; follow with 4 x 20-second strides.
* Workout: 4-6 x 400 meters (one lap of the track) with a 200-meter “float” between intervals. Run the 400’s at 1-2 seconds per lap (4-8 seconds per mile) faster than your current 5K race pace and the 200’s at a pace that’s about a minute per mile slower than your 5K pace.
* Cooldown: Run easily for 10-15 minutes, stretch, refuel.
* Warmup: Run easily for 20-25 minutes; follow with 6 x 20-second strides.
* Workout: 8 x 400 meters (one lap of the track) with a 200-meter “float” between intervals. Run the 400’s at 1-2 seconds per lap (4-8 seconds per mile) faster than your current 5K race pace and the 200’s at a pace that’s about a minute per mile slower than your 5K pace.
* Cooldown: Run easily for 20-25 minutes, stretch, refuel.
This workout benefits a wide range of runners from weekend warriors hoping to improve their 5K time to serious marathoners looking to lop minutes off their personal best. De Castella used to perform this workout weekly, but for most runners, tackling such a session every other week or even once every third or fourth week is plenty. As you get fitter, your lap times—and your race times—will get faster."
8 to 12 X 400's at mile pace is one of my favorite workouts. And while the article references the track, these can be done on your regular route just as easy.
I do not "float" my recoveries, but can see the benefit there. I have no hard and fast rule on how I recover. Some days it is distance (200 or 400 meters), some days it is time (60 seconds or 120). It could be full recoveries, or partial as shown above.
In any event, 400 meter intervals have a place in my training arsenal, and for those of you who are looking to improve your race times, give them a shot!
I love 400s. They make me feel fast and I don't die from asthma while doing them. Contrary to 800s.....
I do 3 miles warmups, for obvious reasons. I don't think I have done more than 8 sets, although when I used Daniels' 10K program I think I had 12 sets but couldn't complete them due to asthma that day. I want to give them a shot again and see.
Damaris
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OK. The terminology here is driving me crazy. Typically, when one thinks of "threshold" training, you think of that "comfortably hard" pace that's somewhere between half marathon and 10K race pace for most of us. A bit faster than 5K pace is flying. Moreover, I don't get the "fastest maintainable speed." That's meaningless because my fastest maintainable speed in a marathon is completely different from my fastest maintainable speed in a 5K. The workout is good but the terminology is confusing at best.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
Are we there, yet?
Perhaps the article mentions De Castella to illustrate that marathoners can also benefit from this workout, but it or variations on it date back to the 50s. Mihaly Igloi popularized it when his runners dominated U.S middle distance and were a huge force on the world stage. It lost its following in the 60s and 70s when distance runners were attracted to Lydiard's methods. My guess is that most people reading the article, if they've even heard of De Casella, had no idea that he ran that type of workout.
As far as the terminology, there is more than one threshold and the article is clear enough that LTH apparently understands it well enough that he thinks it's a good workout.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Smaller By The Day
The terminology is especially frustrating because they quote Daniels. Daniels + Threshold = Tempo. Daniels + Interval Pace = VO2 Max. Threshold workouts and VO2 Max workouts serve different purposes, and Jack Daniels also says that if you don't know the purpose of a workout, you might be better off to not do the workout.
Improvements
Weight 100 pounds lost
5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)
10K 48:59 April 2013
HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013
MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013
No more marathons
Words often have different meanings for the speaker and the listener. But the workout is clear
Workout: 8 x 400 meters (one lap of the track) with a 200-meter “float” between intervals. Run the 400’s at 1-2 seconds per lap (4-8 seconds per mile) faster than your current 5K race pace and the 200’s at a pace that’s about a minute per mile slower than your 5K pace.
Why bother debating the preamble?
Boston 2014 - a 33 year journey
Lordy, I hope there are tapes.
He's a leaker!
Words often have different meanings for the speaker and the listener. But the workout is clear Workout: 8 x 400 meters (one lap of the track) with a 200-meter “float” between intervals. Run the 400’s at 1-2 seconds per lap (4-8 seconds per mile) faster than your current 5K race pace and the 200’s at a pace that’s about a minute per mile slower than your 5K pace. Why bother debating the preamble?
Because if you quote Jack Daniels, and use the term threshold, then you're going to have people who don't know any better think that they can swap out an interval workout for a tempo run. Then, they'll end up spending 18% of their weekly mileage at a VO2 Max pace.
Fear is a Liar
I love 400's and did many over this past summer. Intervals have built in variables - distance run, the pace of that distance, rest interval, the pace of that interval, and the total times repeated. I ran my 400's faster and had a "slower" recovery interval.
I did my 400's at mile pace which is in line with McMillian. I would say my workout was more of a VO2 workout.
This article almost makes it seem like a threshold workout because even though the run distance is at a slower pace, the rest interval is "floated" at a faster pace.
I would think the way I ran them would have a greater range in heart rate whereas this workout would keep the heart rate in a tighter band - which to me would be a threshold type run.
These are just my thoughts. Hopefully a lot can be learned from this discussion as 400's are a very good workout!
The Daniels reference does seem to be taken almost out of context.
I'm so vegetarian I don't even eat animal crackers!
Well said Gustav.
Drink up moho's!!
I like the 600s better than the 400s since you have a longer sustained period at VO2max
Words often have different meanings for the speaker and the listener. But the workout is clear... Why bother debating the preamble?
Words often have different meanings for the speaker and the listener. But the workout is clear...
I agree with this, which is why I cut out some of the original article when I pasted it. Depending on what method you trained under, it can appear confusing, but when it's all said and done it is pretty much all there. Perhaps even to a fault.
These are on my agenda for tonight.