After a tough running weekend (A 5-mile race Saturday followed by a 14-mile long run Sunday) I took a rest day Monday. Today (Tuesday) I had the following planned: 6x2-min hill repeats at 3K pace w/3-min active recovery. I knew I would have to adjust somewhat for heat and humidity-- it was 75 (not terrible, not ideal) with dew point of 70 and 84% humidity. My legs were still somewhat fatigued so I know that was a factor as well.
The first repeat was about 30-40 sec/mile slow. I figured it was just because it was the first repeat, and I was warming up. (I did 1.5 miles easy beforehand, plus a couple drills to warm up). The second repeat was about 30 sec/mile slow. So was the third. I just about bagged the workout then, because I was so far off from hitting my paces I wasn't sure if it was doing me much good. Then I decided that a 7 mile hill run was still not a totally worthless workout, and even though I wasn't hitting the paces, I might as well finish the workout. I did, but finished them all around the same pace as the first one.
I've been running for several years but deciding whether to bag a workout or push through is still something I struggle with. Specific to this case or in general-- how do you decide whether to push through or quit early? If you're going so slowly you're not having the desired training effect, is it worth finishing the workout anyway? And what is that point, anyway? If you're doing a 20-minute tempo run but you're having trouble going faster than half-marathon pace, isn't it worth doing the 20 minutes at that pace? Or is an easy run always a better alternative if you're feeling fatigued? Moving a workout to the following day can sometimes be an option, but how do you manage that when you're doing 2 'quality' days a week plus a long run?
I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.
#artbydmcbride
Push through....bagging it can be become a dangerous habit
Runners run
Had I raced on Saturday and done a medium long run on Sunday, I wouldn't have scheduled a workout on Tuesday in the first place.
It doesn't happen often, but if a workout is really going so poorly, I bag it. This might happen once every two months? If something is so off, probably better to listen to your body's response to what you're trying to put it through. As long as it doesn't become a habit, missing one workout in the grand scheme is nothing. Then go back, look at your log and figure out why it happened.
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
Go figure
Generally, I'm fan of pushing through workouts. I know a lot of people will disagree with this, and I understand why, but I think the mental toughness gained from pushing through a tough workout is greater than the adaptations that are lost from training outside of the optimal or intended paces. The marathon (my focus) is as much of a mental struggle as anything else, so I want to know that even when I hurt I can continue to run at paces that are uncomfortable. Obviously there's a point at which this strategy is no longer wise, and I'll always stop short on something if I fear injury.
The other thing in play is that this was a hill workout for you. To me, that differs from other quality workouts in that you're going to see benefits from running hills, regardless of pace. If you're trying to do a tempo workout and not hitting the paces, you can be in that pace abyss range where you're just barely faster than easy pace and not really deriving any extra benefit. So, even though it's unlikely that I'd bag either, I'd be far less likely to bag the hill repeats.
The other point you brought up is dropping it and then doing it the following day. If I'm going to drop it, the alternative for that day is always easy or recovery paced miles. If I can tell that it's really a fatigue thing that's holding me back, then I will consider just pushing the quality workout back a day. For me, I can usually sense this before I start the workout, which I think makes things a lot easier. As for moving things around, I don't worry too much about the long run. As long as I can keep 2 days between quality sessions, I'm happy. Running a long run a day or two after a quality session doesn't seem to cause me any issues, so I don't worry about that. In that regard, I just think you have to learn what your body can handle.
Trying to find some more hay to restock the barn
It's happened that I've had to bag a specific type of workout (speed or mid-long run), because I wasn't up to it physically and it was obvious. What I'd do was switch for an easy run instead and try again the failed workout the next day. It's always worked well for me. At the end of each training cycles, I could look back and see that I had not missed any of the key workouts, although they were not always done in the right order. Of course, if I had to miss an entire week due to illness, then it's another story...
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
To this point, I tend to look at my training plan as more of 7 days of training than a training plan for every day of the week. That gives me the freedom to do my 8-10 runs a week in the order that works best for my body and my schedule. I may lose a little by not doing the runs in the exact order that they're presented, but I'll take whatever losses I may sustain to have the added flexibility.
That's a very wise way to look at it!
I have had this happen twice this season and both times I pushed through. Mind you, it's not an injury situation we're talking about so to finish a planned workout even at less than desired paces is better than just throwing in the towel. For me that is. Others may think differently and that is perfectly fine.
For each occurrence however, it was important for me to understand why I was having trouble dialing up that days particular pace so that I could avoid it in the future.
I have also cut some workouts short for various reasons but I think ultimately there is no wrong answer here, just each individuals answer.
I think I get more from the bad workouts than the ones where everything goes great.
You might want to consider not using your watch once a week and doing speed work by feel. Once a week won't derail your program.
I get more psycholgically from the bad workouts because I don't bag them. The other day I was dragging the last 2 miles of a long run as it was humid, that part of the course was boring, any other excuse etc. I headed to a more interesting area, and I wasn't dragging anymore. My overall time for the day wasn't bad because I got back on pace.
My usual attitude is to push through them but there are certain days when you should bag them. I do what happylily and SIAR suggested.
Damaris
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Walk-Jogger
Generally when I can't hit my paces in a workout it's because I can't breathe, usually due to allergies, but whatever. The first thing I'll try is shortening the intervals. I can run easy 200's even when I have minor asthma, and sometimes it will clear up if I keep running for a while. But if I continue to out-run my oxygen supply, I'll bag it for the day.
Another situation that I occasionally (rarely) might be unable to hit my paces is due to extreme fatigue or sleepiness; in this case I generally know it before the scheduled workout, and will skip the workout completely and go home (or stay home) and take a nap.
If it's the case that I can't hit my paces because I haven't eaten enough and I'm running a calorie/carb deficit, I'll slow down and keep running and tough it out, knowing that I can eat extra afterwards to make up for it.
Retired & Loving It
Nonsense. I bag workouts all the time and I generally know very early in the workout whether it will be productive or not. If I can't get through the 2nd interval without a struggle or if I'm 15 seconds off my tempo pace by Mile 2 and it feels more like 5K pace, then it's time to call it a day. I might still jog a few miles but struggling through an unproductive workout is pointless at best and possibly increases the risk of injury.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
Resident Historian
Absolutely right! No training plan, and certainly not a single workout, should be written in stone. You may have a feeling before that a workout may not go well - you're sore from previous days, have a cold, didn't sleep, etc. But still start the workout; possibly the tiredness/soreness/sleepiness will go away once warmed up. However, as LTH says, if you're way off pace early, and your body's not going to pick it up, there's no point in killing yourself to complete the workout as originally planned. Doing so may carry the problem over to the next days' runs. Doing so repeatedly will push you into overtraining and/or trigger an injury.
Cut the workout back -- shorten the tempo or interval portion and complete the planned distance if you can. Slow down to easy pace if needed. If you can't, stop the workout and save your next runs. Always train so you'll be able to train tomorrow!
Bagging a workout because you're not hitting the paces from the get-go is one thing.
A different scene is getting to 400M repeat #9 of 12, on pace so far, then listening to the negative voices saying "This is gonna be hard... why not quit now?" For that one... suck it up, buttercup!
Neil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson
Thanks for the input so far!
That's a good point, I usually try to 'train through' races and not spend much time either tapering or trying to recover. I tried to justify it with the tuneup races in my plan--usually there is a hard workout 2 days before the race, and another hard workout 2-3 days after the race. Importantly, though, there is no long run the weekend of a tuneup race. I probably should have done one or the other and not both.
The other thing in play is that this was a hill workout for you. To me, that differs from other quality workouts in that you're going to see benefits from running hills, regardless of pace.
Interesting, and I agree-- several miles of hill running at an easy pace is still a decent workout, so several miles of hill running at between 5K-10K pace is something, even if the target pace is somewhat faster.
What I'd do was switch for an easy run instead and try again the failed workout the next day.
I worry about screwing up my whole schedule, though-- My key workouts are usually Tuesday, Thursday, and a Saturday long run. If I push my Tuesday workout to Wednesday, then I am too tired to do my Thursday workout, and if I push it to Friday, I am too tired to run long on Saturday. I can push my long run to Sunday occasionally, but my running group runs on Saturdays, and it's nice to have the company.
That is a good point-- I do understand why it happened (fatigue from weekend plus weather) but isn't some degree of cumulative fatigue desirable? Obviously there is a line between 'enough' and 'too much' that I crossed, but it is tough to stay on the right side of the line, especially when you're in 'build your mileage' mode.
My usual attitude is to push through them but there are certain days when you should bag them.
This is my usual attitude, too, but how do you tell the difference? I have had problems in the past with mental toughness (especially in races) and although I feel like I've worked on that a lot in the past 2 years and improved tremendously, it is still an issue for me. It is tough to differentiate between the workouts that I actually should give up on and the ones that my mind is just telling me that I should give up on.
What is 'all the time'? I felt like that today but honestly couldn't tell if the 30-40 seconds that I was off my pace was just an appropriate adjustment for weather or a sign to call it a day. I've cut a couple workouts short in the past 8 weeks, and it's always been because of a combination of hills and humidity. Fortunately my interest in running a humid mountain race is approximately 0%.
Bagging a workout because you're not hitting the paces from the get-go is one thing. A different scene is getting to 400M repeat #9 of 12, on pace so far, then listening to the negative voices saying "This is gonna be hard... why not quit now?" For that one... suck it up, buttercup!
Yes, when that happens I am mainly able to ignore those voices. I ask myself, 'if you're really fatigued, then why have you been hitting all your paces thus far?' (and yes, I might yell a couple 'suck it up, buttercup!'s at myself).