Beginners and Beyond

12

Don't run your race before you run your race? (Read 125 times)

Brilliant


    I don't remember exactly when/where I saw the piece of advice in my thread title, but I'm pretty sure it was here.  With that said, I plan to run my first marathon next year.  I have a friend who wants me to sign up for another marathon 5 weeks prior as "practice."  I can't imagine anything more damaging to any training plan (by the time I recovered from the "practice" marathon it would be time to taper for the "real" marathon).  I picture myself crashing & burning during the "practice" race, and ending up not being able to do my planned race.

     

    She has sown seeds of self-doubt in me - "You won't know if you're ready unless you do this."  Please tell me I can safely ignore her.  Does any training plan except Galloway's suggest running marathon distance to train for the marathon distance?

    Jack K.


    uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

      Don't do it.


      SheCan

        I'm far from an expert here, but I know for myself, I wouldn't have been up to running my first 2 marathons 5 weeks apart.  IF I were going to do both, I'd do the debut marathon as my goal race, that I trained for, and and the 2nd one only if I felt up to it after the first.

        I love my friends to death, but they don't always know what's best for me.  Sometimes i have to make those decisions just for myself. Please don't let yourself be pressured into something you're not comfortable with.

        Cherie

        "We do not become the people who this world needs simply by turning our backs on anyone we don’t like, trust, or deem healthy enough to be in our presence. "  ---- Shasta Nelson

          Does any training plan except Galloway's suggest running marathon distance to train for the marathon distance?

           

          I am not an expert, but I'm pretty sure no.

          Although it would seem there really shouldn't be a problem to do it at a very slow pace. But probably easier said than done, once you pin that bib to yourself.

          Dave

          Brrrrrrr


          Uffda

            Do 20 mile runs, and if you're up for a little more do a 22 mile. There's a bunch of evidence to suggest that any running after 2.5 hours has no positive impact. I like running my 20 mile runs because I knew what I'd feel like after that. Needless to say, when the day came I was more than ready to start running. There wasn't one second that I had wished I had ran a practice marathon, because they do take a lot out of person. I can't figure out how someone like Damaris can run more than one in a month. Crazy.

            - Andrew

            wcrunner2


            Are we there, yet?

              That quote wasn't intended for this situation; it was aimed more toward running your training runs too fast.  However it is certainly applicable here. Tens of thousands of runners have trained for and completed marathons without running the marathon distance in training. Many have even done it without ever running as far as the vaunted 20-miles of many standard marathon training programs. It's also a bad idea to make major modifications like that to a training program unless you really know what you're doing.

               2024 Races:

                    03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                    05/11 - D3 50K
                    05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                    06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

               

               

                   

              LRB


                If it falls within your schedule, you could register for and run at a part of the race as a supported long run at your slow pace.  Turning at the 9 mile point of an out back type course for example, if you had an 18 mile long run that weekend.  Or, mixing in marathon paced miles within a long slow run, but certainly not 26 of them bad boys.

                 

                There are not many who spend money on that type of long run, but sometimes people do it to get a feel for strategy, hydration and things of that sort, so the idea on a supported long run is not totally foreign.

                 

                Being a relatively new runner myself, you could not even get me to drive past an event while I was training for my first marathon, let alone enter and race one.  For where I am now as a runner, I would not need to enter an event to run part of it, but I can see the logic there.  To race the whole thing though, hells no.

                Love the Half


                  In my 5+ years of running, I have seen a lot of dumb ideas and even implemented a few.  This may well be the dumbest one I have seen.  (Well, except for me running a 50K in the middle of 5K training but we won't go there tonight).  The day before my first marathon, I told my wife that I expected to finish between 3:10 and 3:15.  I finished in 3:11.  I could be that accurate because I knew how my training had gone and I had done other, shorter races.  Train right, run some lead in races, and then go run the marathon you are capable of running.

                   

                  And I refuse to refer to Galloway as a "training" plan.  It's more like a "stumble across the finishing line in barely under the overly generous cutoff" plan.

                  Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                  Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                  Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                  Awood_Runner


                  Smaller By The Day

                    As someone who just ran their first marathon a month ago, I can honestly say that I would not want to run another 5 weeks later.  Now, Docket Rocket can do that, but she's run 23 (I think) marathons.  She also has the training for multiple marathons figured out.

                     

                    You're training for 1 marathon.  Jack Daniels talks about signing up for a marathon to use as a training run, but he doesn't intend for you to finish it.  You sign up, and run your training run on the course.  It gives you an opportunity to practice your water stops, and fuel strategy in a setting that is set up perfectly to mimic race day.  Somewhere between mile 18 and 22, whatever your program calls for that day, you gracefully step off of the course and start your recovery.  If you ask me, that's pretty expensive practice, but I could see how that might benefit you during your first marathon.

                     

                    As for the seeds of self-doubt, you're going to have those regardless.  I'd be worried about anybody going into their first marathon who thought, "Piece of cake...I got this".  I had plenty of doubt going into mine.  Even with long runs that went amazingly well, I still couldn't stop thinking about that one that didn't go well or the miles I missed that one week while camping in South Dakota.  I think that's natural.

                     

                    My advice...don't run a full marathon to train for a full marathon.  If you sign up for a marathon as a training run, plan on dropping out early and stick to your plan.  The full marathon does take longer to recover from, than a 20 mile run.  Trust me.  Speaking of trust.  Do your best to trust your training.  Know that having some self doubt is natural, but do your best to stay positive.  Stick to your plan.

                    Improvements

                    Weight 100 pounds lost

                    5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                    10K 48:59 April 2013

                    HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                    MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                    happylily


                      Last year, in the fall, I ran a 3:34 marathon and 6 weeks later, ran a 3:32 one. About 10 weeks later, I ran a 3:38 (hilly) and 10 weeks later a 3:27. I've never tried 5 weeks apart, but I can try if you want!

                      PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                              Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                      18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                        Last year, in the fall, I ran a 3:34 marathon and 6 weeks later, ran a 3:32 one. About 10 weeks later, I ran a 3:38 (hilly) and 10 weeks later a 3:27. I've never tried 5 weeks apart, but I can try if you want!

                         

                        I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the first two you ever ran were not 6 weeks apart. That's the situation here.

                        Dave

                        happylily


                           

                          I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the first two you ever ran were not 6 weeks apart. That's the situation here.

                           

                          That's very true. That's a big difference too. Actually, my comment was just a joke. For anyone, it's never a good idea to do it, period

                          PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                  Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                          18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                          wcrunner2


                          Are we there, yet?

                             

                            I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the first two you ever ran were not 6 weeks apart. That's the situation here.

                            That may be true for happylily, but my first two were 5 weeks apart and my third was two weeks later. The second and third marathons were both slower, but they could have been much faster than they were. I made a rookie mistake in the second starting way, way too fast. The third was run in 90F temps. However, and this is a HUGE HOWEVER, my base was probably much bigger than the OP's (2500 miles for the year) and I had a lot more racing experience. I also did not run any farther than 18 miles in training, and that was only once. My training partners, including one who ran 2:45 at Boston, didn't see any need to run farther as long as I was getting in the mileage and quality workouts.

                             2024 Races:

                                  03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                  05/11 - D3 50K
                                  05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                  06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                             

                             

                                 


                            delicate flower

                               "You won't know if you're ready unless you do this." 

                               

                              She has no idea what she is talking about and should not be giving out running advice.  Running a "practice" marathon five weeks before your "real" marathon is a terrible idea.

                              <3

                              Docket_Rocket


                                Your first marathon is hard.  Very hard.  You don't know what to expect, you suffer, you have fun, and you finish.  You do not need a 26.2 miler before your first marathon (or before any marathon) so doing it to know what to expect is not only wrong, but misguided.  I wouldn't run the marathon, unless you do as LRB has suggested and drop at certain point on the race.  If you want to do multiple marathons, 6 weeks is a very long time to recover from one and do the other, but if your goal race is the second race, stay the course, train and do not run the other marathon.

                                 

                                And your friend has no idea what she is talking about.

                                Damaris

                                 

                                As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

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