Beginners and Beyond

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July 4th 5k RR. Advice appreciated as well. (Read 84 times)

workinprogress11


    This is late because they just today (4 days later) posted the results.  The race committee was quite surprised to find that the 400 people they anticipated turned out to be 800 so I'm guessing they had some issues with timing as it wasn't chip timed.  Since my official time is within a couple of seconds of what my garmin said, I'll take it.

     

    I PR'd this race by 7 seconds coming in at 25:54, but I am not very happy with the race.  I was plagued once again with side stitches and stomach cramps and actually had to stop twice for about 10 seconds each time during mile 3 so as not to pass out.

     

    Mile 1 felt great.  My legs felt great, my breathing was fine and I was just cruising along.  A faster friend of mine had decided to do this more as a fun run so ran with me from about the start of mile 1.5 until about mile 2, but it was then that the side stitch hit and I waved her ahead.  I was determined to run through the stitch, but it continued to grow in intensity until finally it shifted to my actual stomach (or something like that.  It's hard to explain) and became a full blown stomach cramp.  I really tried to keep going and keep some kind of a decent pace, but I started getting dizzy and around mile 2.5 had to stop and lean over with my head down.  The stomach cramp didn't abate completely, but got more manageable so I continued on.  About mile 2.8, it had intensified again and I had to stop AGAIN.  Argh!  Again, the cramp became manageable and I managed to finish the race.  After I got through the never ending finishing chute, I immediately sat down and put my head between my legs and the cramp finally went away about 5 minutes later.

     

    I am extremely frustrated with this stitch/cramp thing that has hit in every single 5k and 10k I've run in the past year.  My longer race times suggest that I should be able to run a much faster 5k, so I know endurance isn't an issue.  I've been trying to do speedwork to get used to running fast, but you're not supposed to do any of that at race pace, right?

     

    Does anyone have any advice as to where I should go from here?  I should say that I have always had digestive issues throughout my life, so maybe this is something that I'm stuck with, but I hate to think that's the case.  If anyone has had similar experiences or has any advice, I would greatly appreciate hearing it.  Thanks in advance.

    bluerun


    Super B****

      First, congrats on the PR.

       

      About the cramp/stitch, that used to happen to me a lot in shorter races.  I think it was because I was drinking too much too close to the start.  It hasn't happened since I started cutting myself off fluids 45-60 minutes before the race, which kind of sucks in hot weather, but it did solve the stitch problem...

      chasing the impossible

       

      because i never shut up ... i blog


      Hip Redux

        I might have mentioned this all before... but it sounds like a diaphragm spasm.   Right below your ribcage, sort of at the top of you stomach?   Have you looked into the book mentioned in this artcle?

        http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/running-air-breathing-technique

         

        I get the same thing in fast races at about 1.5 miles in, and I don't really have a solution other than I have narrowed it down to being triggered by my breathing.  I try to really concentrate on the techniques mentioned in the article above before it hits and it's been better, but not 100% gone (got another one in my 5k this weekend... grr...).  

         

        Good luck and congrats on the PR!

         

        kristin10185


        Skirt Runner

          Congrats on the PR! Sorry about the side stitch and stomach cramp though Sad that's rough and unfortunately I have no advice. I hope someone here can help!

          PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

           

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          meaghansketch


            I've been trying to do speedwork to get used to running fast, but you're not supposed to do any of that at race pace, right?

             

            Actually many plans recommend doing some speedwork at race pace-- 400m repeats or 800m repeats (or even 1000-1200m repeats for faster runners) are a staple 5K workout.

             

            I've dealt with side stitches in 5K races occasionally, mainly early in a given season when I haven't been doing any fast racing.  Maybe some 5K pace running, starting with short repeats (200m) and going up to 800-1000m would help?

             

            You still had a great time, and congrats on the PR.  Given how much you had to stop, you can probably go quite a bit faster if you can get past that issue.

            Docket_Rocket


              Congrats on the PR.

               

              My usual side stitches are caused by my breathing, especially if my chest is having issues that day.  Yours do not sound like typical side stitches so I would suggest you check the links bluerun posted.

              Damaris

               

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              LRB


                You absolutely can train at faster than 5k race pace, I have spent the entire year doing just that in the form of "R" pace training.  The question is at what pace, when and for how long.

                 

                Based on your new PR, your "R" pace is :54 seconds (7:14 pace) for 200 meters, and 1:54 for 400 meters (7:38 pace).  There are a million "R" pace workouts but a couple of simple ones are 4 X 200 + 2 X 400, or 4 X 400 + 4 X 200.

                 

                The key to figuring out how many to do is to spend no more than 3 to 5 % of your weekly mileage total running at "R" pace per week.  So for me, I may do 10 to 12 X 400 or some combination that totals no more than 5000 meters (3 miles) at "R" pace in one workout.

                 

                As for recoveries, with "R" pace I usually recover the same distance I ran, so my 10 X 400's would be with 400 meter recoveries.

                 

                I cannot offer any help with the side stitches other than to say that if you somehow became comfortable running a "R" pace, it may make 5k pace not so bad.


                SheCan

                  Congratulations on the PR!   It does sound frustrating getting those terrible cramps, but you got such a good time despite them.  I used to get side cramps more often, and even when I did, I can't remember them progressing into something worse.  They were just an annoyance. I started controlling them better by making sure I wasn't dehydrated, and watching my breathing. Good luck to you on getting a handle on them.

                  Cherie

                  "We do not become the people who this world needs simply by turning our backs on anyone we don’t like, trust, or deem healthy enough to be in our presence. "  ---- Shasta Nelson

                  Love the Half


                    I do a lot of speedwork at various paces.

                     

                    Strides at the end of a run are done at what would be about 400-800 meter race pace.  Very fast.  5:15 pace

                     

                    Speed repetitions last from 45 seconds to 2:30 and about mile race pace.  5:30 pace

                     

                    VO2max intervals last 3-5 minutes about 5K race pace.  6:00 pace

                     

                    Tempo runs last 3-6 miles at about 6:30 pace

                     

                    Marathon pace runs last 8-12 miles at about 6:45 pace

                     

                    My guess is that you are not doing sufficient speedwork for your body to be used to those kinds of efforts.  No, you don't want to go out and run a 5K at 5K race pace but you do want to do something like 6 x 800 @ 5K race pace with 400 recovery jogs.  That gives you 3 miles of hard running but it's not as stressful as a race because you get the recovery with those 400 meter jogs.  Bear in mind that when you first start these, you may not be able to finish the workout with 400 meter recovery jogs.  It may be better to start with 600 meter jogs and then work your way to 400.

                    Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                    Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                    Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                    LRB


                      It may be better to start with 600 meter jogs and then work your way to 400.

                       

                      Or recover by time e.g. 2:00, 2:15, 2:30 etc.


                      Trail Monster

                        How long have you been running? The first year or so I really started racing I would throw up or cramp up every.single.time. Now I don't. Not sure what changed but I think part of it was learning my limits and part of it was perfecting my pre- and during race rituals. As someone else mentioned, water can do that. I don't drink before or during 5k's. I also have learned to recognize the feelings of impending problems and pull back before they arise. Experience and practice will take care of most everything so long as you don't give up.

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                        7/27 Burning RIver 100M

                        8/24 Baker 50M

                        10/5 Oil Creek (distance to be determined)

                         

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                        Go figure

                          Congrats on your PR, despite your side troubles.  Unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot to offer outside of what has been said already.  I completely agree with those that said that training at or faster than your race pace is a good thing, as long as you're smart about how often and how much.

                          Trying to find some more hay to restock the barn

                          workinprogress11


                            Thanks for the support and advice everyone. I am going to give some of those fast interval type things a try. Can't hurt anymore, right?

                             

                            just for those who asked, I've been running for about 3 years and average around 40 miles per week. I've tried eating, not eating, drinking, not drinking and all combinations of those before a 5k with the same result. I usually do a slow jog of about 1.5 to 2 miles for a warm up, but maybe I should pick that up a bit.

                             

                            Thanks again for the advice.  I appreciate all that I learn here.

                            LRB


                               I usually do a slow jog of about 1.5 to 2 miles for a warm up, but maybe I should pick that up a bit.

                               

                              I would not change that, what I do is go from 1.5 - 2 miles at easy pace, to 10k pace for 3 to 5 minutes before speed work.  If a race is involved then I also add strides after a brief recovery from 10k pace.

                               

                              Of course you can experiment with a shorter warm up, it just might work for you.

                              Love the Half


                                Just for the record, here is my preferred warm up keeping in mind that my 5K race pace is around 6:00.

                                 

                                1 mile very easy jog@ 8:30-9:00.

                                 

                                1/4 mile @ 8:00 + 1/4 mile @ 7:15 + 1/4 mile @ 6:30 + 1/4 mile @ 6:00 (easy effort, marathon effort, tempo effort, 5K effort)

                                 

                                Rest two minutes.

                                 

                                1/4 mile @ 5K pace + 1/4 mile slow jog (like 10:00 pace) + 1/4 mile @ 5K pace + 1/4 mile slow jog

                                 

                                Rest two minutes.

                                 

                                4 strides.

                                 

                                Hopefully, it all finishes 5-10 minutes before the gun.  In cooler weather, more like 5 minutes and in warmer weather closer to 10.  If temps will be above 75, I abbreviate the workout and skip the two 1/4 mile efforts @ 5K pace.  I just finish going up through the gears and then do some strides.

                                 

                                A bit of slow jogging is a great warm up for a marathon but it's not so good for a 5K.  You need to prime your body to be ready to crank it from the gun.  Without a fairly extensive warmup, you'll have a good chance of spiking your lactate levels and then you'll start to slow a good bit somewhere around Mile 2.  I agree that you need to do a bit of experimenting.  I did one warm up that lasted over 4 miles and found out that was too much.

                                Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                                Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                                Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

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