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During a HM or FM, do you set a plan or just wing it? (Warning, a bit long) (Read 144 times)

FreeSoul87


Runs4Sanity

    I definitely want to run a negative split for the Half Marathon next weekend, and I've found a few websites that can help but I don't know if I should stick to a plan or just wing it and go by feel. Even if I did aim for a plan, I know I will most likely say fuck it and end up winging it anyways. I don't think I am disciplined enough to stick to a pace plan, I think it would actually screw me up............. though it's fun going through and setting split times and stuff.

    I personally love negative splits, but I started out with them because I didn't have much confidence with my running so I was scared that if I started out too fast then I'd bonk. But at the end of my races I would feel unsatisfied because I would then realize I could have given it more than I did. I've been running since 2010, I think the only race that wasn't a negative split was my Hearts on Fire 5k, I stayed pretty close to a 9:10 min/mile pace. I think my goal for this Half is for the first 6 miles keep it between 10:30-11:00 min/mile pace (mainly to save energy for the Holy Hill that I still am not sure about), the hill is a steady incline from mile 6 to mile 8, so that is where I can't quite fit a plan because I don't know how I will handle the hill. After mile 8, depending on how I feel I want to aim for between 10:00 - 10:30 min/mile but closer to 10:00 min/mile, and then once I reach mile 10 if I've got the energy, I want to kick it between 9:00-9:30 min/mile while steadily increasing to the finish. But again, this all depends on how I feel and that stupid hill (I hate not knowing how big a hill is or what I am up against), it wouldn't be a big deal if it was like the two Indy HMs this Fall, which are known for the relatively flat course.

    Before the foot problem which seems to be getting better already (except for one thing and I will mention it shortly), my tempos were starting out easy and then finishing fast. I'll give 2 examples:

    Feb 27 - 7 Miles - 1:07:36 - 9:39 min/mile

    Mile 1 - 10:55

    Mile 2 - 11:03

    Mile 3 - 10:27

    Mile 4 - 9:17

    Mile 5 - 8:44

    Mile 6 - 8:50

    Mile 7 - 8:19

    March 6 - 7 miles - 1:08:06 - 9:43 min/mile
    Mile 1 - 10:37

    Mile 2 - 10:27

    Mile 3 - 10:34

    Mile 4 - 9:41

    Mile 5 - 9:32

    Mile 6 - 8:59

    Mile 7 - 8:14

     

    But what makes me confident overall (other than the recent foot problem) is my 10 mile long run back on February 24.

    10 miles - 1:40:51 - 10:05 min/pace

    Mile 1 - 10:35

    Mile 2 - 10:12

    Mile 3 - 10:22

    Mile 4 - 10:18

    Mile 5 - 9:55

    Mile 6 - 10:03

    Mile 7 - 10:07

    Mile 8 - 9:54

    Mile 9 - 9:50

    Mile 10 - 9:34

     

    So I mean, I know could handle an average pace between 10:00 - 10:30 min/mile for the HM if I did something like this, but that all depends on how things go and how I deal with the hill. Tuesday's run wasn't bad though I felt sluggish, my foot was fine but my left foot was being weird. The toes and the meat behind my toes felt like they were rubbing really fast and hard against fabric, they felt on fire. I don't know if it was the socks or what so I'll see how tonight's run goes.

    *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

    PRs

    5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

    10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

    15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

    13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

     26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?

      I only use a strict time schedule in shorter races like 800m and the mile. Other than that I'd guess would would call what I do winging it. I have a definite idea about what race pace should feel like and that's what I try to hit regardless of what th eclock says. Sometimes that's slower than my pre-race target, often it's very close, once in a while it's faster and that's when I know I'm going to have a great race.

       2024 Races:

            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

            05/11 - D3 50K
            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

       

       

           

      FreeSoul87


      Runs4Sanity

        I am just hoping I don't let fear or nervous anxiety get the best of me, causing me to run the first half too slow. I want to to give it my best, but my fearing of bonking or hitting the wall could screw it up. I didn't really feel nervous until my foot started giving me issues 2 weeks ago, and although it is feeling a lot better, I am now nervous.

        *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

        PRs

        5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

        10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

        15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

        13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

         26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

        Awood_Runner


        Smaller By The Day

          I like having a "flexible plan".  My last half marathon plan was to run at my predicted race pace that McMillan projected, but then I saw the forecast for the wind and factored in fitness gains over the previous few weeks of training, and the fact that I had been sick.  I decided to draft off of the pace group that was closest to my previously stated goal pace, and see how I felt after 7 miles.  If I felt too comfortable after 7 miles, I'd pick up the pace.  I had to adjust because at the 7 mile marker, I was going into a strong headwind.  Breaking from the pack actually would have resulted in a vast increase in effort and little to know increase in pace.  I didn't break from the pack until AFTER I was out of the headwind, and the last 4 1/2 miles were all crosswinds.  I picked up the pace by about 15-20 seconds per mile, and was able to maintain that for a negative split.  I can tell assure you that I was SPENT when it was over, and left very little if anything on the course.  I beat my goal and the pace group I drafted off of by 53 seconds.

           

          So, I had a plan, but I adjusted for the external factors that were thrown at me.  The result was that I actually exceeded my goal, even after being sick all week, and having to deal with really challenging weather conditions.  I should also add that I was ITCHING to run faster for the first 5 miles.  Without a plan, I probably would have blown up around mile 7.

          Improvements

          Weight 100 pounds lost

          5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

          10K 48:59 April 2013

          HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

          MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

          FreeSoul87


          Runs4Sanity

            Thanks, I definitely like the idea of taking it pretty easy for the first 6 to 8 miles (I will say 8 because of Holy Hill) and then seeing how I feel before increasing the pace. I do enjoy feeling myself get faster every mile, but only if I am feeling good and having no pain.

            *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

            PRs

            5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

            10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

            15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

            13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

             26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

            cmb4314


              With HMs, I usually have some kind of idea of what pace I want to run when I start, but once I get going I kind of just wing it.  I also rarely negative split a race, but my best races I have come in with pretty even splits.  Usually by mile 10, I'm praying for it to end and hanging onto my pace for dear life - accelerating is out of the question.

               

              Like, my last HM I was planning on running 8:30s.  But my first three miles all clocked in around 8:25, and it felt good, so I just went with it.  And it turned out to be right, if not a little bit conservative - even though I was going faster than I had intended, I still had enough in the tank to kick in the last mile at a pace ~15 seconds/mile faster than my race average (which actually ticked me off, because I felt like I'd left some time on the course).

              My wildly inconsistent PRs:

              5k: 24:36 (10/20/12)  

              10k: 52:01 (4/28/12)  

              HM: 1:50:09 (10/27/12)

              Marathon: 4:19:11 (10/2/2011) 

              happylily


                I don't like much negative splits. Pfitz says they indicate (for recreational runners such as ourselves) that we didn't push ourselves enough. Better to try going for even splits. But because I hydrate only in my second halves, I always finish with a positive split. I do plan my positive split in advance and my best races were definitely the ones where I followed my plan. Those where I just wung (or winged?) it, I ended up miserable...

                PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                        Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                Better I Leave


                  Those where I just wung (or winged?) it, I ended up miserable...

                   

                  **grin** I like it Lily! Cool

                  happylily


                     

                    **grin** I like it Lily! Cool

                     

                    I take it it's "winged", then. Big grin English is so complicated...

                    PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                            Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                    18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                    FreeSoul87


                    Runs4Sanity

                      Lily created a new word, wung it. I guess I consider or enjoy negative splits because it takes me a couple of miles or so to really warm up and get into my pace.  The Hearts on Fire 5k was a bit of a different story, it was a pretty even split but I was rearing to go and just felt great and did not expect hills, with a longer distance like a Half I might be a little more concerned and nervous whereas 10k's and 5k's  I am like oh well or What the hell it's only 3 or 6 miles.

                      *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                      PRs

                      5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                      10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                      15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                      13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                       26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

                      wcrunner2


                      Are we there, yet?

                        I picked up the pace by about 15-20 seconds per mile, and was able to maintain that for a negative split.  I can tell assure you that I was SPENT when it was over, and left very little if anything on the course.  I beat my goal and the pace group I drafted off of by 53 seconds.

                         

                        Being spent at the end doesn't always mean you ran your best. You can feel like that if you hold back until the last few miles then blast the last part of the race.

                         

                        Negative splits per se aren't desirable. What is desirable is a controlled expenditure of effort that leave you running at a pace you could barely hold to the finish. Anything from slightly negative due to being able to kick at the end to slightly positive as you make an effort to maintain your pace to the end should result in a peak performance. Unless you are extremely well in tune with yourself and your capabilities, setting a pre-defined pace and sticking to it will almost always result in a sub-par race.

                         2024 Races:

                              03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                              05/11 - D3 50K
                              05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                              06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                         

                         

                             

                        Better I Leave


                          In all my past HMs I've always "wung" it....just my .02 Smile

                          FreeSoul87


                          Runs4Sanity

                            I seriously need something else to think about dang it.... I've got a week before we leave the race and the anticipation is going to drive me insane!

                            *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                            PRs

                            5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                            10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                            15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                            13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                             26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)


                            Hip Redux

                              No wunging here.

                               

                              My first one I actually had a more experienced runner who paced me based on what I told him I was doing in training.  I was really lucky - I just followed him!  No thinking.  Big grin

                               

                              The second one I did play it conservatively and with a plan - stay at a certain pace until mile 6-7, then see how I feel and adjust up if I could.   My training sucked so I really wasn't sure what I was able to do.   I managed to PR on a tough, windy course but I am sure I felt something in that first half... but I was ok with it.

                               

                              FreeSoul87


                              Runs4Sanity

                                I'm going to be driving everyone around me crazy for the next week Big grin And then after next weekend's race is my son's 1st birthday!!!!!! I am making it Finding Nemo themed, or under the sea, he loves fish and the Finding Nemo movie.

                                *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                                PRs

                                5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                                10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                                15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                                13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                                 26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

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