CliveFenster and Happyfeet... Didn't know what you guys are planning as far as a long run but I think I'm going to need to cancel. I need a long run this weekend but I'm not sure how far I'm going to get so whatever I do I probably should just do it by myself in case I have to drop out. Looks like the old man aches and pains are about to overtake me!
I've got 12 slated for Sunday. I think HF has a race on Saturday and will tack some extra running onto the back end of it to get his 12.
I'm noticing a great way to make old-man aches and pains recede: taper! Hope you find a way.
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
Nobby has given me a plan for the Marathon that tops out at 170 minutes for the long run, a couple of 90 minute runs for the midweek and the rest easy 30-50 min jogs for the week for the base building period. Do this for 10-12 weeks, then the longest run gets shorter each week, and then add hills for 4 weeks, intervals for 4 weeks and reduce the mileage even more for the last 6 weeks , the long run is capped at 120-150 minutes, with a couple of days of shorter strides, wind sprints, 1 day of race or time trial etc the rest of the week.
It's too late to try that for this marathon, but .maybe something to consider if we are getting too beat up training the traditional way with 3 20 milers. This plan by Nobby (Lydiard) by no means is a run less run faster approach, but it emphasizes mileage (rather time spent running) early in the 24 week training most of it jog pace (up to 3 minutes slower than 5K pace), then drop some mileage and progressively run faster for the last 12 weeks. Will try it for my next marathon and compare results.
BTW, I am trying the 10k, 5K double this Saturday, will be interesting. Wonder if I should go all out for the 10K and suffer through the 5K, or barely try and get a PR in the 10K (my current 10K PR is very soft) so I'll have a chance to get another PR in the 5K as well.
On the road again...
I'd be very interested in that plan, Sashi. I'm currently on the Hal Higdon plan that calls for 3 20 milers and I'm really re-thinking that and maybe doing 1 20 miler and 2 16 milers instead. I can't tell how much of my fatigue is from the training plan or from the fact that I'm doing runs at XC practice on top of the planned mileage.
Here's a good example. My plan called for an 8 mile pace run today and a 16 mile long run tomorrow. Due to some scheduling stuff, I had to bump them up a day, so I did my 8 mile pace run yesterday morning and felt terrific - the kind of run that gives you hope about the marathon. But idiot me then goes to XC practice and puts in 4 miles of trails in the 95 degree heat, and so this morning I cut my long run short at 12 miles just from being tired. So, I got the same 24 miles in that the plan called for, but my long run suffered, and that's not good.
So, needless to say, I'm all in for looking at different plans. The idea of a 3.5 hour training run (which is about what 20 miles would be for me right now) does not excite me.
I write. I read. I run. One time, I ran a lot on my 50th birthday.
Paul
Paul,
I keep reading how one is not getting much physiological benefit beyond the 2.5 hour mark, and how the 20 miler is mostly for confidence purpose. The origin of the 20 miler is that is what the elites run, but at their paces it comes to a 2-2.5 hour run, not the 3 - 4 hours most of us mortals spend trying to run that distance, and they do a lot more running the rest of the week than most of us.
However doing a 8-10 miler the day before the long run of 14-16 miler and maybe another 6-8 the next day would be a lot more beneficial than taking off the day before and the day after the long run, so one can run the 20 miler.
Nobby's plan is based on 5 days or running, assuming one can run 2 hours right now. Send me a PM with your email and I'll send it to you. It should apply to you as well since your paces are similar to mine. I requested this plan for my next marathon, in July 2011, so it starts in January 2011.
If you did not run the aerobic phase, with lots of 1.5-2.5 hour runs and are following a different plan now, I wouldn't switch to this one in the middle. All plans have a logic and reason why they are structured that way.
Thanks, Sashi. I'm not looking to switch plans, for sure, as I'm now 7 weeks into the one I'm using. I have no trouble running 2 hours, and already run 5-6 days a week, so it sounds like a great plan to look into for my next training cycle.
I'll shoot you a PM.
Shashi, that's interesting information about Nobby's Lydiard plan. I've been reading a link he provided in another thread for a while now, from a lecture he did back in 1999 and the plan was based on running 7 days a week, with emphasis on 3 long runs a week.during the conditioning phase. The aneorobic stage consisted of 3 hard anaerobic runs a week with a long run also. The ultimate goal is for a person to be able to run a schedule like this:
Monday, 1 hour, Tuesday 1.5 hours, Wednesday 1 hour, Thursday 1.5 hours to 2 hours, Friday 1 hour, Saturday 2 hours or more, Sunday 1 to 1.5 hours. "The running should be easy, and the miles covered, of no real account. The "time" spent training is the important part. The conditioning phase has you working between 70 - 100% of your maximum aerobic effort. Not Long Slow Distance.
I look back at this often and think, my little 5 mile run is nothing. You have to give respect to somebody who, while experimenting on himself, ran upwards of 250 miles per week looking for solutions.
I managed to drag myself around town for an 18-miler this morning. The NYC Marathon is in six weeks and I'm planning on two more 20-mile runs plus two half marathons so I can get used to running faster for a long distance.
I'll be glad when the marathon is over and I can get back to having fun running. This is too much like work. No more marathons for me in the future... remind me if I ever bring it up again.
Richard Hefner Past Race Results (Athlinks)
under a rock
20 miles done today! Last long one before my marathon. It was tough after the temps went up but I survived. Did it on the ridgline trail of Crowders and Kings Mtn parks. Getting really excited. Time to book my hotel. I've been putting it off until this last one was done because I've been so afraid I'd jinx myself if I got my ducks in a row too early.
Richard, I'll be sure to remind you if you start talking marathons again. Sorry you're not having fun training for NYC.
Wow! Nice running, you two!