Why do you say that?

For me this is why. I prefer hilly marathons. The "local" one I run (as well as the other "local" one that I will be running for the first time in May) both have killer hills at the end. I feel these kinds of run simulate the end of a hilly marathon. I'm not saying doing these kind of workouts at marathon pace or every week etc.

Bugs, your marathon was in bad weather, right? Any advice? I guess I'll start out with a garbage? not sure...

What kind of weather are we talking about? Rain? What temp?

For me this is why. I prefer hilly marathons. The "local" one I run (as well as the other "local" one that I will be running for the first time in May) both have killer hills at the end. I feel these kinds of run simulate the end of a hilly marathon. I'm not saying doing these kind of workouts at marathon pace or every week etc.

I hope it didn't seem like I was calling you out, it was an honest question. I've tried training way too many miles on dead legs and it has hurt me not helped me. "Running 8+ miles on hills with dead legs" I'm pretty sure Nobby would call that a mistake, but who knows, probably hard to answer straight out. I see so many references on running on tired legs in these forums, just run easy your legs will get use to it. That hasn't worked for me. I've been told it's better for me to do a little less than too much. Always end your workouts with a little in the bank, knowing you could have ran them faster if you wanted to. Save 100% for the race. I'm trying much harder to stay in my fitness level, it's hard sometimes to do less, but that's what I've been told to do. I thought this was a very good article.

I hope it didn't seem like I was calling you out, it was an honest question. I've tried training way too many miles on dead legs and it has hurt me not helped me. "Running 8+ miles on hills with dead legs" I'm pretty sure Nobby would call that a mistake, but who knows, probably hard to answer straight out. I see so many references on running on tired legs in these forums, just run easy your legs will get use to it. That hasn't worked for me. I've been told it's better for me to do a little less than too much. Always end your workouts with a little in the bank, knowing you could have ran them faster if you wanted to. Save 100% for the race. I'm trying much harder to stay in my fitness level, it's hard sometimes to do less, but that's what I've been told to do. I thought this was a very good article.

Not at all! I agree with the whole always end your workout with a little in the bank. In fact I usually end most of my workouts with too much in the bank, like today. Maybe I'm just a "freak" or I'm really running under my potential. My legs feel great from both todays run. In fact I don't even feel like I worked out that hard and more than likely I'll run around 12 miles tomorrow. Anyway I have few runs where my legs ever feel dead. I can agree that for alot , maybe even for most that that type of workout may be a recipe for disaster. I however am not like most, that I know. MTA: if you have alot of runs that your legs feel dead, to me that sounds like pushing too much or doing more than your body can handle.

How about wearing a running hat?? Your temps sound what was forecasted for the NJ marathon I ran last year. Course it didn't rain like they mentioned but the hat didn't really get in the way. I also wore a skirt and a tank top. Hope you don't mind me jumping in MTA: I also ran Philly in 30 something degree weather with wind/rain in just a tank and skirt. WISH I had that hat then *sigh*

Pam, Sounds like you do smart training. I can be guility of wanting to run so bad even though I shouldn't. I had a tough week at work last week, I think the stress goes to the legs sometimes. That and I've been working on my knee lift which is working my quads a litte more. Saturday morning I should have not ran for two hours, but I had a work stress to burn off you know and instead of going postal runners run. When I got 20-40 minutes in and I released this is not the workout I wanted I shoud have quit, tried again on Sunday. Instead I ran for two hours at my easy pace, but it wasn't easy, it was hard. Geez - the garmin is useless isnt' it! I have some fatigue in my legs the last two days. I've been running easy no more than 45 minutes and I feel better at the end of my workouts, but still holding back. Today I ran a double, and tonight I ran four hill repeats. I ran them so slow, just nice and comfortable, good knee lift. By the time I got back to my car I felt so fresh, I could have went back and repeated the workout. Hey I'll be the first to say I'm no expert, but I think this is how coach wants me to train, at lest this far ahead of the marathon. Kim, I think that is close to what TCM conditions were. It's important you have a top layer that can keep the cold water off. It was at about mile 9 I managed to get a cheap rain slicker and I was fine once I was running in that. I think that kept the cold rain off my legs too. I ran right beside people that were in shorts and tank like me and they seemed fine. But I was also a little sick, and with your cold, well you might want to be a little over prepared but prepared to toss if need be. I'd go buy a cheap cheap plastic rain slicker.

GOOD MORNING LOU!!! And apparently GOOD NIGHT CASH!!!

Good morning, Shan! (and good night, Cash -- glad you don't hate me any more ) Geez it's windy out. Luckily I only have 3 miles, which is unusual for a Thursday. But 52°F so I have shorts and short sleeve shirt on. We have single stream recycling and I'm worried about putting out the recycle bin, even though it's quite large. The steady wind is 25-30 and gusts to 45-55. I think we'll be paying the home repair guy to replace some shingles after this winter.