Dave - I didn't have a weak finish. You said YOU fizzeled and I was asking why you thought that happened.

really that hill was a beast and even if you would have known about it it might not have mattered. I had been warned about it (before your warning) and it just didn't matter.

sorry to interrupt the HR conversation, but I need to know how to dress for this extreme cold. when you say three layers: what do you wear? yesterday I wore two pairs of running tights and two shirts and a jacket , hat and gloves and i was still cold. Tomorrow, I have 22 scheduled- temps supposed to be slightly above 0.... I really want to run this long run well... but I have no experience with temps this cold. Last winter, the coldest it got was low 20s, and i wasn't training for a marathon. Today, i will hit the treadmill... not sure if the extreme cold is bad for my cough or not. Good runs all.

Today in 8° I wore: top: compression shirt turtleneck (underarmour hot gear), regular long sleeve running shirt, running "jacket" (half zip technical sweatshirt really) bottom: heavy tights, warmup pants head: thin technical ear warmer (like a band that goes around ears thin at forehead), heavy "skullcap" hat (technical material), balaclava (thin technical) face: vaseline hands: thin technical nike gloves, thick gloves over top I was able to pull the balaclava over my mouth and nose, but couldn't breath well so didn't run like that much I had to pull my fingers out of the thick gloves and make a fist to warm my hands at first Hope this helps.

No kidding. That's about what I wear for -10 or so... For runs about zero, I'd wear my Brooks winter weight tights (these are old so I'm sure newer ones are more effective); and I have some "Arctic" pants by Hind to put over the tights. I've worn these two layers on all my cold runs this year, down to -30 and was pretty good. At the lower end, I should've added my silk long underwear under the tights. For my top, I always try to keep my core warm. I have a vest made of the softest wool (not itchy and fully washable) that I got in New Zealand. It's wonderful! I also have a fleece vest made for winter riding (horses) that I've had for ages. I alternate these two as my first layer. For temps above 10 or so, don't really need this. One or two tech type long-sleeved shirts. I have a heavy weight top for winter running, it's cool with a hood and it's bright pink. I love it. If it's colder than zero, I'll add a fleece jacket. This is the jacket I'll wear all the way down to -30 and it works just fine. Head: with the temps we're having now (20's and 30's) I wear just a headband to keep my ears warm. Colder temps I'll add a balaclava (I got a nice new one with holes for the mouth/nose area which really helps the breathing, but at the really cold temps even these frost up and make it difficult to breathe.) but add the headband over that cuz my ears get cold easily. Hands: Glove liners, a light polypro if warmer, heavier fleece if colder. Right now, I'm just wearing the fleece ones alone. Colder temps, I have a couple of different weights of mittens I add over them. Nothing beats mittens for keeping your hands warm, especially with a glove liner inside. It's like your hands have long underwear on under a comforter! My hands get cold really easy so I have to be very careful to keep them warm.

thanks guys... but I think that means I have to go shopping this afternoon... no baclava... possibly need thicker tights? wow- I'm freaking out- but I need to get it done How many miles from here to Mankato? just over 1100... that's not too bad.

the expenses are his issue. It's not that I want to run it's that it costs money and more than he is willing to let me spend - if I could drive and stay with a friend that would be fine. But the fact that it would cost me around $500 when all was said and done - well he isn't having it. He said only 1 big "vacation" and I can be ok with that - especially since Tahoe will be pricey the races alone is going to be 280.

I'm just teasing Shan. Like I said no matter where you live it's an expensive race. Infact they have two new marathons in MN this year hoping to compete with them. Not everybody has Lake Superior though.