Low HR Training

12

About Tapering, Rest, Recovery, Repair, Overtraining, Loads + Monotony (Read 1719 times)
jimmyb


posted: 3/1/2008 at 3:35 PM
modified: 11/24/2009 at 4:33 AM
Hey Gang, Added: Tapering Links (below) General theme: reducing stress for health, optimal training, and peak performance. Below the links is a Borg scale chart that will help explain the Pfitzinger pages about overtraining. I got it from one of the other links. I also have a few suggestions about the MAF base phase. I think discussion of training loads could be a good one. Let it rip.

 

 

Your Best Rest

 

Pfitzinger On Recovery Weeks


14 Tips For Preventing And Treating Muscle Soreness and Aches


The Most Basic Law Of Training

 

The Importance Of Rest

 

Optimal Rest


Post Race Recovery

 

Getting Rest


Rest vs. Active Recovery


Cooldown for Faster Recovery

 

Study: 2 minutes of rest optimal for interval training


Recovering From The Marathon


Easy Runs and Recovery


A Fresh Perspective On Recovery Runs


The Essence Of Athletic Performance is Recovery


The 15 Basic Laws Of Training

 

Overtraining Detective--good info about causes of injury and illness

 

Are you overtraining?

 

Pfitzinger figures out training load using the Borg Scale (from The 15 Laws Of Training webpage): # Perceived effort .5 very, very weak (just noticeable) 1 very weak 2 weak 3 moderate 4 somewhat strong 5 strong (heavy) 6 7 very strong 8 9 10 very, very strong (almost maximal) He then multiplies duration (time) by the effort.

 

 

Keep track of your loads, avoid monotony and overtraining. Tapering --"In a study using runners, a 60% reduction in training for 15 to 21 days showed no loss in either endurance or V02 max." (pages 108-109, Training For Endurance 2nd Edition by Phil Maffetone, ©2000) --"At least 2 weeks in duration...sometimes as much as 3-4 weeks...is optimal for the marathon...during the taper period, reduce your training by 50 to 80%, with less training as you get closer to race day. In addition, avoid all anaerobic training during the taper period. Downhill running or spinning on your bike can help the nervous system maintain its turnover capability." (page 109, Training For Endurance 2nd Edition by Phil Maffetone, ©2000) More with varying ideas:

 

The Perfect Taper (Mark Allen)


Tapering (Peak Performance)

 

Taper For Endurance Athletes (Sports Science)


Tapering (UltRunR)


Rest For The Weary (TrailRunner)

 

Comrades Champ Fordyce on Tapering And Rest

 

Don't Taper--Peak! (McMillan)

 

Hopefully someone will find this valuable. Enjoy! --Jimmy
posted: 3/1/2008 at 9:27 PM
This is a great thread. Can this be made into a sticky or something so it doesn't get lost. I can use the information from the links in my coaching.
Finished my first marathon 1-13-2008 in 6:03:37 at P.F. Chang's in Phoenix.
PR in San Antonio RnR 5:45:58!!!!!! on 11-16-08


The only thing that has ever made any difference in my running is running.

Goal:
Break 2:30 in the HM this year
Jay Benson Tri (place in Athena category) 5-10-09
Shiksa


Aerobigal! (thx Jimmy!)

posted: 3/1/2008 at 9:56 PM
Thanks Jimmy.

I've been thinking a lot about this because I'm thinking about "time spent at MAF" vs. mileage. So, I've been tweaking my training and thinking about what to do after my 1/2 marathon this month.

Stacy
I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons.


run-easy-race-hard

posted: 3/1/2008 at 11:20 PM
Quote from turboterie1 on 3/1/2008 at 9:27 PM:
This is a great thread. Can this be made into a sticky or something so it doesn't get lost. I can use the information from the links in my coaching.


done!


Holly: runner to be

posted: 3/3/2008 at 3:41 AM
I ordered Tim Noakes 'The Lore of Running' off the internet a week ago and it just arrived at work today - all 1,000 pages of it.

It looks like it has some very solid content though, gives a real insight into the science behind running and how the body works, etc. Looks a lot similar to the recent topics posted here!

Hank
Summer 2008-09 running goals
Sub 20:00 5km
Sub 40:00 10km
Sub 1:00:00 14.2km Run for the Kids
Sub 1:30:00 1/2 marathon (maybe)

oh, and just have fun and not be a slave to the numbers...lol


Hawt and sexy

posted: 3/4/2008 at 3:26 AM
Wow. Um, Jimmy, we now kinda train the same, and it looks like we both got there intuitively. Are you my brother from another mother?
Running is like sex; the more you do the more you want.
jimmyb


posted: 3/5/2008 at 5:52 AM
Quote from willamona on 3/4/2008 at 3:26 AM:
Wow. Um, Jimmy, we now kinda train the same, and it looks like we both got there intuitively. Are you my brother from another mother?


I've actually been training this way since 2005. Did Hadd (I didn't DO Hadd, I did his program) in 2004. I got serious about MAF base periods in 2006 (I did base periods before that but at higher HR's). After the base period, I've been trying different things. I thought I'd reintroduce some Pfitzinger stuff in this "anaerobic" phase. i got here by intuition, and a few boo-boos as well. So, pain and intuition, AND book smarts, as well as street smarts I guess. I've been posting a lot of "rest and recovery" , don't over do it training load stuff. I had a hunch this forum needed it. Also, always a good reminder to myself , especially when I get up over 70 miles per week. Since I did my experiment of 100-mile weeks in 2006 (part of the "what is stupid and what is not" learning curve), 70 doesn't seem like much, but it is. I have to keep myself, and my ego, in check and stick to the rebuilding plan I've been on since June 2007. I've taken that long to build back from 40 to 70 mpw. I'm a long way from 100, and it's not really the goal right now. Just trying to get back to 3:22 marathon fitness or better. That probably will take until fall. One thing I'm being religious about is making sure I do MAF tests regularly during this phase. So far, they are getting better an better.

Thanks, Will.

--Jimmy
posted: 3/8/2008 at 5:09 PM
Jimmy,

I have been lurking on the MAF training for about 6 months back at Cool Running. First, my sincere thanks to you, Jesse and the rest of the gang for the invaluable information. It has really helped me keep my head about me with my running program. Not to give the too long history, I started running again back 6 month's ago. I am 53 year old male weighing in at 226. I have the worst feet ever! Over pronater and flat footed. I wear orthotics and run in motion control shoes. This last December I had a set back with my old orthotics breaking down and creating some foot and leg pain. With a new pair of orthotics and the MAF training, I am giving running another go and thus far everything is back on track.

I have been following the 10% rule for weekly volume increase. needless to say, I am only up to about 15 mpw since the injury. A friend of mine, who is an ultra runner herself and a coach, told me to keep increases slow because of my feet and weight. My body needs time to condition my skeletal system to adjust and build stronger bone for the increase stress put upon it by running. Therefore, I have been logging more miles this quarter on the treadmill and crosstraining with a Precore AMT and elliptical.

My question is regarding rest and recovery. On nonrunning days, I have been logging in time crosstraining. Usually about 45 - 60 minutes. Even on running days, if I am running an easy 3 mile, I will go to the AMT in order to get another 30 minutes or more of endurance and MAF training. What I'm not sure about is how much rest do I need if I am keeping my HR at my MAF zone? At this low heart rate and this low volume, are the muscles overloaded that much?
Since I am well below my AT, how much stress am I putting on the muscles and how do I gauge my needs?

Thanks, from a true beginner. Doug

"Rule of Too's: Too long, too hard, too much, too soon" Anonymous
jimmyb


posted: 3/8/2008 at 6:22 PM
modified: 3/8/2008 at 6:23 PM
Quote from gooddogtx on 3/8/2008 at 5:09 PM:
Jimmy,

I have been lurking on the MAF training for about 6 months back at Cool Running. First, my sincere thanks to you, Jesse and the rest of the gang for the invaluable information. It has really helped me keep my head about me with my running program. Not to give the too long history, I started running again back 6 month's ago. I am 53 year old male weighing in at 226. I have the worst feet ever! Over pronater and flat footed. I wear orthotics and run in motion control shoes. This last December I had a set back with my old orthotics breaking down and creating some foot and leg pain. With a new pair of orthotics and the MAF training, I am giving running another go and thus far everything is back on track.

I have been following the 10% rule for weekly volume increase. needless to say, I am only up to about 15 mpw since the injury. A friend of mine, who is an ultra runner herself and a coach, told me to keep increases slow because of my feet and weight. My body needs time to condition my skeletal system to adjust and build stronger bone for the increase stress put upon it by running. Therefore, I have been logging more miles this quarter on the treadmill and crosstraining with a Precore AMT and elliptical.

My question is regarding rest and recovery. On nonrunning days, I have been logging in time crosstraining. Usually about 45 - 60 minutes. Even on running days, if I am running an easy 3 mile, I will go to the AMT in order to get another 30 minutes or more of endurance and MAF training. What I'm not sure about is how much rest do I need if I am keeping my HR at my MAF zone? At this low heart rate and this low volume, are the muscles overloaded that much?
Since I am well below my AT, how much stress am I putting on the muscles and how do I gauge my needs?

Thanks, from a true beginner. Doug


Congrats on getting started again. Whether you are running, ellipticalling (is that a word?), swimming, etc. it all adds to your training load. You want to avoid training monotony. Follow a hard/easy approach.

Example of monotony (using load pt.s from the Sally Edwards chart:

M--200
T-- 200
W--190
T--200
F--170
S--300
S--190

Low monotony:

M--180
T--rest
W--180
T--90
F--250
S--rest
S--90

In other words, go hard, easy, hard easy. Hard is higher time or mileage, easy is lower time and mileage and effort or rest.

I suggest that you raise your volume by 5%, not 10%. 10% is more for someone who as a few years under their belt, and seen progress. Go slow, go easy. Be a turtle.

With your weight, just walking is putting extra stress on your body. But best to keep moving., and keep it alll below MAF until the time comes when you are ready to graduate. You'll know it when it comes. Once you get your weight off, you might find your foot problems will get better. I recommend Maffetone's book on fixing your feet. Weight is a problem, but so is weak feet. Do everything possible to strengthen your feet (building slowly as you would with anything).


--Jimmy
posted: 3/8/2008 at 8:38 PM
I'm not sure what others have experienced, but 100 running points are more stressful from a training load perspective (to me at least) than 100 swimming or biking points. Swimming and biking are a lot less taxing on the body, and I suspect the same could be said about the elliptical (I don't do the elliptical).


Hawt and sexy

posted: 3/9/2008 at 4:53 AM
The training load caused by running would be higher than all of the sports you listed. The reason is running is the only weight bearing sport in the list. The rest of the activities listed have the body supported by another medium and not self supported. This load bearing is what makes running tough and not for the faint of heart. You don't come to running because it is all cotton candy and pixie sticks; you come to running because you like cotton candy and pixie sticks.
Running is like sex; the more you do the more you want.


Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 3/26/2008 at 3:22 PM
I am doing maf training so pretty much asll my workouts are at the same rpe, though somedays I do feel better than others so that will alter it I suppose.
Is there a certain amount of load I should be turning out each week?
How often do I increase load etc?
This seems like a really useful tool but at the moment all I am doing is just putting in the amount of time at each level, and that is it - it doesnt actually mean anything to me.
"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009
C-R


Aaack!

posted: 11/14/2008 at 2:27 PM
Jimmy,

Tried to access the spreadsheet and could not get access. Is it still open?

"He conquers who endures" - Persius
"Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're stupid." - John Whayne New quote needed. Purdey found the secret

Running to Beat Cancer
jimmyb


posted: 11/15/2008 at 10:15 AM
Quote from C-R on 11/14/2008 at 2:27 PM:
Jimmy,

Tried to access the spreadsheet and could not get access. Is it still open?


Fixed.
==Jimmy
RER


posted: 11/20/2008 at 6:43 PM
modified: 11/20/2008 at 6:46 PM
Quote from jimmyb on 11/15/2008 at 10:15 AM:
==Jimmy


This thread has good material; if people just followed some of these simple rules. But I think all these issues are addressed with HRM training, when properly done. Your monitor becomes your training partner and happy friend. Your MAF test becomes your coach, keeping you on the right training course for more speed while preventing overtraining. And a great aerobic base keeps your body healthy, so tapering, rest and recovery is easier and more effective.

I liked Maffetone's Overtraining piece better because it discusses the earliest stage of overtraining, catching the problem before you're there and the damage is done. That's the point we should be aware of most so we can make the appropriate changes -- an overall benefit of the HRM.

And there's a good companion article for women on amenorrhea and overtraining written by Coralee Thompson, MD (I hate it when men write articles about women's problems).

...Jimmy, your molecule graphic looks nice -- like the "ah" feeling we get in our brains (the graphic looks like receptor sites in the brain). But I really liked your eggs. Where did they go?
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