Carmel,

They're gonna start beatin' a path to your door for a shoe contract.

Those"Vibrams" are shoes, aren't they??!

..Hey, do you need a good agent??  

lg

flower - I love my FiveFingers.   I actually do all my weekday runs barefoot or in VFFs.  I'm always getting injured when running in shoes.  I have flat feet and a severe over-pronator so I'm always been told to run in special motion control shoes, but I still get injured.  Shoes are like a cast on your feet where your muscles atrophy.  Now that I run in minimal shoes or barefoot, I'm never injured and my feet are really strong and getting tough soles.  I still can't go long distances or run on trails in VFFs though.  So my weekend long trail runs are still in trail shoes.  My pack is a CamelBak HAWG, which is probably one of the biggest CamelBak hydration packs they sell for running.  Yes, it has a long tube that attaches to the front so I can sip on it when I need water.  It's pretty cool.  I usually run with a hydration belt around my waist that holds 2 20oz bottles, which I'll continue to use on medium distance runs.  But if I have to go a long distance without having access to water, I'm going to use the CamelBak.  As far as food goes, I've always taken Gus and Gels and Shot blocks on long runs.  But I'd like to train my body to go long distances without food, but I am still a little confused on fueling during races now that I'm doing Low HR.  Aid tables in ultras typically have cookies and candy and I can't carry fruit juice with me like Dr. Phil suggested.  But then again, if I'm racing, I'll be above MAF so maybe I want sugary carbs.

CarmelRunner - Hi.  I'm confused on the table you posted and what the numbers are.  It looks like  you have paces mixed in with HR times so wasn't sure what it all means.  For example, your mile 1 line says "8:06 17:02 8:06 138 138". So you have three paces and 2 HR numbers listed for 1 mile.  What do they mean?  Thanks

For me today, I did 6 barefoot miles.  A little stiff from yesterday's run.  I stayed well below MAF the entire time, except going over slightly on some hills.  The hills in my neighborhood really make it tough to stay below MAF and I end up doing some walking, which hurts the ego a little

Jon

LG - I can always use an agent but alas it would be to try and get interest in a middle aged slow guy. Likely not much money in that.

 

Jon - the table is a direct pull from the interval section of this sites log. You can go directly to my workout and see the headers but they are:

Type	Distance	Time	Total Time	Pace	Avg HR	Max HR	Notes

 It just doesn't paste very easily. Hope that helps.

 Oh, cool.  Thanks.  If I'm reading it right, your splits are almost even with a near steady HR than, right?  Wow.  That's impressive and I'm assuming that's the goal of Low HR training.  I have a long ways to go...my starting pace and ending pace is a big difference.

 

Hey Bjorn (bfjon),

Don't expect to improve fast, soon, or by a lot - you might end up disappointed. It can take a long long time to see improvements. Also, some of us are not patient enough to ever see them - just look at me, I am an example of the latter. On the other hand, as you've noticed, some are doing really well with the program and not misbehaving. I am rather baffled by it all and disappointed in my own maf journey this far, so I have strayed off to the side and am doing lots and lots of things the non-maffing way. Sooner or later I may find my way back to pure maffing - it's been a good spring and I've learned a lot even if I haven't improved on the tests, sigh!

We have a low whine quota so I must stop now - sorry!

Vibram Five Fingers look so cool in the pictures I have seen on the internet; I have tried a little barefoot running on sandy trails and the skin did toughen some, which was nice. I didn't feel it helped me to stay injury free though. I thought it was kind of hard on the feet, heels, and the back of the leg/calf - felt very tight and was afraid of overdoing it as I had severely injured myself last summer from running hills is flats and Nike Frees. I have a tendency to go out and overdo things and jump into them WAY too fast. One of the things I am trying to learn is to be patient and accept small changes and gradual increases and cut-backs in order to make steady but slow progress. I feel very tempted to try some VFFs. What kind of VFF are you running in? 

Do you run ultras?

You definitely have to start slow when it comes to barefoot and minimal running.  Once you remove the support of heels, your achilles will have to lengthen and your calfs will have to get stronger.   You typically want to increase in 1/4 mile increments at the most.  And most of all you have to learn to run with good form, which barefoot running usually forces you to do.  You want to land mid-foot or fore-foot instead of heel striking.  Every time you strike with your heel first, you're putting the brakes on and also sending shock waves up all the joints.  If you land mid or fore foot, you're using your build in shock absorber in your Achilles.  I currently have 2 types of VFFs...Flows and KSOs. I've run about five 50ks so far and have a 40 miler in October and a 50 miler in Novermber.  They'll be on trails though, so I'll be using trail shoes. 

In preparation for your ultra races what is the length of your long-run(s)? How often do you run a long-run? How many hours does it take you to run your long-runs? Do you run as many days of the week as possible or do you find that you need time to let your body recover on certain days?

I am considering running a 50K some time in the fall - it is a trail run. It is done in loops, which means I have the option of running a part of it and dropping out if I feel it is too much to handle - this idea appeals to me. I do not foresee that I will be able to run the entire distance but I may use a walk/run approach and see what happens. Currently my longest run is 15 miles and I am building. However, I am also working in some more intense runs during the week which means my building is going to be very gradual. My longest race to date is the marathon - I have run 2 marathons in recent years.

I would like any advice and encouragement you can give me. Thank you also for the explanation about the VFFs and minimalist running. I feel I was injured by my stability shoes in a previous marathon preparation so I am now running in neutral shoes. My trail shoes are a little flatter and less cushioned - they are the Brooks Cascadia; I like them very much but I don't run in them on the road.

bfjon,

In preparation for your ultra races what is the length of your long-run(s)? How often do you run a long-run? How many hours does it take you to run your long-runs? Do you run as many days of the week as possible or do you find that you need time to let your body recover on certain days?

I am considering running a 50K some time in the fall - it is a trail run. It is done in loops, which means I have the option of running a part of it and dropping out if I feel it is too much to handle - this idea appeals to me. I do not foresee that I will be able to run the entire distance but I may use a walk/run approach and see what happens. Currently my longest run is 15 miles and I am building. However, I am also working in some more intense runs during the week which means my building is going to be very gradual. My longest race to date is the marathon - I have run 2 marathons in recent years.

I would like any advice and encouragement you can give me. Thank you also for the explanation about the VFFs and minimalist running. I feel I was injured by my stability shoes in a previous marathon preparation so I am now running in neutral shoes. My trail shoes are a little flatter and less cushioned - they are the Brooks Cascadia; I like them very much but I don't run in them on the road.

For a 50k race, you really don't need to do more training than you'd do for a marathon.  The key is to make sure you're training on the same kind of surface.  Most ultras are on trail so you would need to make sure you're doing all your long runs on trails.  And if you've done trail running, you know it's MUCH harder than road running.  I actually use marathons as training runs for ultras so 26 miles is usually the longest I run for a 50k.  But I have a 40 and 50 miler coming up, so I'll probably do a 30 miler training run and also use the 40-mile race as a training run for the 50-miler.  I should note that 99% of ultra runners actually do a run//walk.  I walk all the hills, run/walk the flats, and run the downhills.  That's the typical strategy so don't think you're suppose to run 50k without stopping.  If you can do a marathon, you'll definitely be able to do a 50k....it's the technical trails that are the hard part, not the distance.  The Cascadia's are nice, but they don't come in wide widths and the normal width was too tight.  I run in New Balance 875s right now, which have 4E widths.

This morning was just a 10 mile trail run.  I do all my long runs on trails, but this was the first time I tried to run at my MAF.  It's not easy to do on trails.  I think I did okay and only went over MAF a few times and my averages were pretty good.

lg - I would have loved 50s this morning.  It was in the low 70s here, but I was drenched in sweat after the first mile.