Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23106 times)


Chasing the bus

    First run since last friday. Right fibia/calf was fine, left knee still not good, but not worse, so I did 4 miles! Average HR 112, pace 11mm, which is smoking fast, for that HR. Think I'm gonna delay starting speed work. I don't want more injury. If I race next month, I'll do it Maffetone style.

    “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
    Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test


    Bad Ass

      What Furthur mentioned brings me to a question I've been debating for a while.

       

      I want to do a somewhat Maff method during the first half of 2013.  I have a ton of races though.  So, my plan is to do all the runs at Maff but use the races as my speedwork or PR effort (depending on the race).  Any comments?  Should I post this as a separate thread?

      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

      Blog

      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


      Chasing the bus

        I've only read the book once, but Maff. says speed work after LHR cycle, up to like 4 weeks, then start LHR again. I don't remember if long slow running still plays a role? He also says many don't even need speed work, just show up at the race and run, but my guess is you'd need to have some experience racing, and have a good idea of pacing, to make that work.

        “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
        Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test


        Bad Ass

          That's my problem.  I race almost every weekend, LOL.  So, so far, since finishing with marathon training and just doing multiple marathons after that, I've been running easy and using the races as some sort of speedwork (MP run, tempo run, etc.)  So, I cannot follow Maff in full but even doing it in part has benefited me.  I just wonder whether to change or add something to that plan.

           

          And yes, he advocates no speedwork at all for a period of time.

           

          Thanks!

           

          I did another run tonight at 140HR and 20 seconds faster per mile than this morning.  Sigh, lower humidity (still high) than the morning.

          Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

          Blog

          "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


          Consistently Slow

            10 Easy + 1 C/D HR 124 /172. High MHR

             

            I was running back and forth along a fence line agitating a dog. When he is outside of the fence he is afraid of his own shadow.

            Run until the trail runs out.

            2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

            50miler 13:26:18

            Race Less Train More

             

            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

            "The Marble in The Groove"

             

            unsolicited chatter

            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

              Back to the Drawing Board

               

              I am recommitting myself to MAF pace running.  I do not think I am overtrained.  I certainly am not, based on the mileage I do.  But, when I run above MAF pace now, I just do not feel good.  It feels stale.  Something is off. 

               

              I usually try to run in the 10s which puts me in the 130s for heart rate, which is above my MAF.  I am now running in the 11s which puts me in the 120s for heart rate which is about my MAF pace now.

               

              I think something magical happens when you just get in that zone (MAF).  You all of a sudden are in a zone where it feels really easy, and it sort of feels like you can just keep going.  While anything above just feels much harder.  It is a fine line.  I mean it is only 10 heart beats per minute or 1 minute per mile, but it makes a big difference.

               

              My best running season was 2010.  I spent the first 6 months of that season at MAF pace, and then the second half, I adopted the Lydiard methods.  It really worked for me that season, and I attributed it to the Lydiard paces, but now I see that it really was the fact that I preceeded it with 6 months of MAF paced running.

               

              I cannot sustain running in the 130s very long before feeling stale and burned out.  So, I think I am going to commit myself to MAF pace running for a while.   Especially now that I am barely breaking 10 miles per week.  I want to slowly increase after the winter season, but just maintain during the winter.

               

              Although I post a lot less to this board, it is still something I like to follow and it is good to see some of the new names as well as some of the familiar names.


              Bad Ass

                Back to the Drawing Board

                 

                I am recommitting myself to MAF pace running.  I do not think I am overtrained.  I certainly am not, based on the mileage I do.  But, when I run above MAF pace now, I just do not feel good.  It feels stale.  Something is off. 

                 

                I usually try to run in the 10s which puts me in the 130s for heart rate, which is above my MAF.  I am now running in the 11s which puts me in the 120s for heart rate which is about my MAF pace now.

                 

                I think something magical happens when you just get in that zone (MAF).  You all of a sudden are in a zone where it feels really easy, and it sort of feels like you can just keep going.  While anything above just feels much harder.  It is a fine line.  I mean it is only 10 heart beats per minute or 1 minute per mile, but it makes a big difference.

                 

                My best running season was 2010.  I spent the first 6 months of that season at MAF pace, and then the second half, I adopted the Lydiard methods.  It really worked for me that season, and I attributed it to the Lydiard paces, but now I see that it really was the fact that I preceeded it with 6 months of MAF paced running.

                 

                I cannot sustain running in the 130s very long before feeling stale and burned out.  So, I think I am going to commit myself to MAF pace running for a while.   Especially now that I am barely breaking 10 miles per week.  I want to slowly increase after the winter season, but just maintain during the winter.

                 

                Although I post a lot less to this board, it is still something I like to follow and it is good to see some of the new names as well as some of the familiar names.

                 

                I agree.  Just to give you an idea, I have asthma and before trying Maff, I was having a lot of asthma attacks during running and most of my races.  Since doing Maff pace, my runs feel awesome and I no longer have attacks nor do I need albuterol while running.  I think finding that perfect zone that makes the run easy while also helping with endurance is awesome.

                 

                I did 6 this morning at 145HR.  Again, mine is 143 but I let myself get to 145 if it happens without issue.  It was very humid which is probably why it went up a bit.  Still a very easy run.

                Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                Blog

                "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                  6.09 miles this morning, 9:54 avg pace, 141 avg HR.  41 degrees and windy.

                   

                  Was holding pretty close to MAF (136) until I turned into the wind for a mile and that jumped it up and I didn't slow down enough to get my avg back down. 

                  Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                  dallison


                  registered pw

                    12 miles, 10:19 avg mile   144hr

                    2013 goals:

                    sub 19 5k

                    sub 1:30 half

                    3:20 marathon on second try

                    jimmyb


                      2:37:00  @ MAF 130

                      10.37 miles

                       

                      Baby steps

                       

                      --Jimmy Cool

                      Log    PRs


                      Bad Ass

                        Morning. I had a 5 mile race and I did it by HR rather than pace. I have to look at my splits but I maintained 172 HR and PRd by two minutes. Not bad for somebody only doing MAF runs.

                         

                        For those of you doing MAF for a year or more. How do you know if it's still working for you? I feel my easy pace has stalled but I am still getting PRs so my guess is that it's still working for me.

                        Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                        Blog

                        "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                          Nicely done, Damaris! And Jimmy, if it helps, your baby steps were faster than mine today.

                           

                          I did 8 miles, 2:10:13, 16:17 pace, ave. HR 132. 

                           

                          Today was the end of Week 12 of my Maffing. After 10 weeks, I had improved from an average 17:15 pace in Week 1 to an average pace of 15:18 in Week 10. My best mile in Week 1 was 16:30. In Week 9, I broke 15:00/mile for the first time, and had several miles in the 14:40s that week and in Week 10--Week 10 also saw the first runs where I averaged under 15:00 (okay, they were barely over 2 miles each, but at least I was doing consecutive miles that were faster).

                           

                          Week 11, we started getting snow. I'm in northern Finland, and it snows almost every day. It's harder to run in snow. One of my previous regress weeks was the last in October, when we got our first snow and it stuck for several days. So...Week 11 and 12 show up as regress, too. Doesn't look like it's going to get unsnowy anytime soon.

                           

                          So, this is where I am now: I'm leaving Finland in about 3 weeks, will spend about 10 days in England and go back to the States mid-January. When I get back to the States, I'll probably resume running once a week with my training buddy, and may or may not rejoin a HM training group that meets once a week as well. I'm intending to keep most runs below MAF, but will be going over once or twice a week. 

                           

                          Here's my question: what do I do for the next 3-4 weeks? I was originally intending to start going above MAF once or twice a week starting next week (tomorrow) to check current speed and get used to faster paces before getting back home. But (a) I didn't get to see any progress for the past two weeks; and (b) the snowy conditions might mean that I can't resume previous paces anyway.

                           

                          Should I just keep base-building for another week or two? Or all of it? My running buddy and I usually run in the 11-12 minute mile pace range, and I haven't attempted anything like that in months, so I'm worried that if I don't try a few runs at that pace, I won't be able to keep up with her when I get back.

                           

                          Thoughts?


                          Bad Ass

                            Great improvement, majope.  I would just continue doing easy MAF runs unless you want to train for something.  I don't think that will hurt you and in fact, it might end up helping more.

                            Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                            Blog

                            "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                              I had a great run today on the dreadmill. This workout was a long run in the Hanson Marathon Method mold where the first two miles are a warmup, the next 6 miles I ran at goal marathon pace plus 45 seconds and finished with a two mile cooldown. I was completely suprised at my pace and HR. My MAF is 140 and I will let it creep up a couple before I slow down when I run a MAF workout so basically this was a MAF run by HR.

                               

                              Splits (GPS Interval)
                               TypeDistance              Split settingsDurationTotal Duration   PaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                              1 Interval 1 mi 9:30.72 9:30.72 9:31 123 128  
                              2 Interval 1 mi 9:15.93 18:46.65 9:16 130 135  
                              3 Interval 1 mi 8:51.02 27:37.67 8:52 134 140  
                              4 Interval 1 mi 8:45.58 36:23.25 8:46 140 143  
                              5 Interval 1 mi 8:43.27 45:06.52 8:44 141 143  
                              6 Interval 1 mi 8:42.67 53:49.19 8:43 141 143  
                              7 Interval 1 mi 8:42.14 1:02:31.33 8:43 142 144  
                              8 Interval 1 mi 8:43.35 1:11:14.68 8:44 143 146  
                              9 Interval 1 mi 9:05.16 1:20:19.84 9:06 140 143  
                              10 Interval 1 mi 9:18.22 1:29:38.06 9:19 138 142  
                              11 Interval 0.1 mi 0:57.75 1:30:35.81 9:38 138 140  

                               

                              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                               

                              2014 Goals:

                               

                              Stay healthy

                              Enjoy life

                               

                                Looks like your goal marathon pace might be a little soft.

                                 

                                12.02 miles for me today using the Hanson long run theory as well.  I didn't do a warm up and cool down, just ran 12 miles at goal marathon pace plus 45 seconds.  Looks like my goal pace may not be as soft as yours, looking on Jack Daniels tables it shows 77% of Max as a "moderate" aerobic run which is what the Hanson long run is supposed to be.  That puts my goal HR for those runs at 150 so that's what I ran tonight.  Ended up at a 9:32 avg pace, but that includes my unscheduled pit stop.  Was doing really good for a while, at mile 8 my avg HR was 148 and avg pace was 9:10, but had to make a pit stop and took a mile or so to get back in the swing of things.

                                 

                                With my goal pace up in the air a bit still, I think I'm going to run these runs based on a target HR, more so than an avg pace.  Using a mix of Jack Daniels tables and the Hansons pace chart I'm going to cap my HR on the marathon pace runs at 84% and the long runs at 77% other than fluctuations for hills and wind direction.  (I'll let it climb a bit over that going up hill, but then it drops a bit below that going down hill, climb a bit into the wind, drop going with the wind, etc.)

                                 

                                Think I can stick with MAF on the easy days and stay true to the plan on that at least.

                                Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27