Low HR Training

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First MAF test (Read 1398 times)

    This is my very first MAF Test and it was performed on a treadmill as it was 46 degrees (real feel of 40) and raining outside. Its getting colder, so I'm thinking I should just start my MAF tests indoors on a treadmill for the winter months.

    I was a little disappointed with the results. I can run 6 miles outdoors and average just over an 11:00 minute mile while staying at my MAF HR for an average, but can't get close on a treadmill indoors.

     

    I have been running seriously for the past three months and toyed with it for a couple before that.

     

    0.75 mile warmup = 8:12 @ 129 HR ave and 143 HR max

    Mile 1 = 11:22.....Ave HR = 140
    Mile 2 = 12:16.....Ave HR = 140
    Mile 3 = 12:55.....Ave HR = 140
    Mile 4 = 13:24.....Ave HR = 140
    Mile 5 = 13:50.....Ave HR = 140

     

    0.25 cool down = 3:39 @ 137 HR ave and 143 HR max

    Average MAF Test HR = 140
    MAF Test Max HR = 143

    Average pace = 12:46

     

    Comments are welcome and appreciated

     

    The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

     

    2014 Goals:

     

    Stay healthy

    Enjoy life

     

    jimmyb


      Congrats on  getting your first test done. If you're going to do your tests indoors on the TM, make sure you record the temperature and the humidity (you can can get a cheap thermometer/hygrometer to hang in the room or bring into the gym). If you do a test in 50º outside, then come inside and run on the TM, the difference in temperature will be at least 15-20ºF, and the humidity could be different. The room tends to get warmer as you run. I use a fan on me, and also a little one sucking air out of the room to control the stuffiness.

       

      So, don't be too disappointed, as the slower time indoors is to be expected if the outdoor temps have been cooler. What's important is that you created a benchmark, and can now compare future tests on the TM to it. I've done 99% of my tests on the TM over the years between 65-75º. Normally, 65-70º, but here in Hotlanta, I'm slowly being able to get the temps down in that end room.

       

       

      I use a 1% incline for my tests to make it more like running outside.

      I suggest that you warm up for at least 15-20 minutes before beginning the test. If your MAF is 140, gradually bring your HR up until you reach MAF -10 (130 bpm) by the end of 15 minutes, then bring it up to MAF over the next few minutes and begin. Do the same thing for every test.

       

      What was your average pace. That's important as well. If the average improves over time, that's a good thing.

       

       

      Keep going!

       

      --Jimmy

       

      p.s. Have you found my hidden running log yet?

      Log    PRs

        Thanks Jimmy and yup, I've looked your log over.

         

        I had a average pace of 12:51 for the 5 miles.

         

        I started running right away (I'm terrible at stretching or loosening up before I start running) and figured I'd run a mile, then start tracking the splits and HR. I noticed I had to start slowing down the treadmill  before I got to the 3/4 mile mark and decided to start my testing at that point. I see now that approach will not give me consistant results for future tests.

         

        I will be walking and jogging a little for the next test to get my HR to MAF-10 and then pick it up for a few minutes to reach my MAF HR and start the Garmin. That makes more sense then the way I did it. If I add the 0.75 miles I used as a warmup back into my run stats, my pace was an average 12:32. If I take the last 0.75 miles off the end, my pace would be around 12:00 flat. Thats still high compared to my normal runs, but closer and not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

         

        I also ordered the "Maffetone Method" and should be getting it in the next few days. I can't wait to start reading it.

         

        The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

         

        2014 Goals:

         

        Stay healthy

        Enjoy life

         

        jimmyb


          These days, I walk for 10 minutes, record the average HR. Then start my run. The first 15-20 minutes is warm-up. The idea is to gradually bring the heart rate up to the workout target, or target zone. As an example of a way to structure things, I'll share what I am doing lately:

           

           

          10 minute warm-up walk. I start slow, and increase pace until I reach 95-100 bpm. I reset my Garmin (press Stop, then push LAP until it resets).

           

          Then I start running.

          First 5 minutes: I keep my HR between 100-106 bpm.

          2nd 5 minutes: I keep my HR between 107-112 bpm

          3rd 5 minutes: I get to 118 bpm by the end of 15 minutes total.

           

          After that, I'll do different workouts between 118-128bpm (my MAF is 128), making sure to spend some time at MAF during every run.

           

          I'lll cool-down for 15-30 minutes with walking, depending on the length of the run. The HR gradually comes down. I try to be in the 80's bpm by the end of the cool-down.

           

          The Maffetone Method explains the why's of  warm-ups and cooldowns very well. Good before and after training workouts or races. Healthier way to go about things. I find that walking for at least 15-20 minutes after a race helps me to recover better.

           

          I hope you enjoy the book. Dr. Phil writes about his personal history with stress and exercise at the beginning.I won't give away the ending, except to say that it is somewhere in the Z section of the index, and the bibliography is as tense as any.

           

          --Jimmy

          Log    PRs

          wbr


              Second MAF test on treadmill

               

              0.75 mile warmup

              Mile 1 = 11:06...Ave HR = 139
              Mile 2 = 12:08...Ave HR = 140
              Mile 3 = 12:41...Ave HR = 140
              Mile 4 = 13:09...Ave HR = 140
              Mile 5 = 13:16...Ave HR = 140

               

              0.25 mile cool down

              Average MAF Test HR = 140
              Maximum MAF Test HR = 143

              Average pace = 12:28

               

              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

               

              2014 Goals:

               

              Stay healthy

              Enjoy life

               

              jimmyb


                Awesome progress, Robert. Keep going!

                --Jimmy

                Log    PRs

                C-R


                  Those trends are heading in the correct direction. 18 seconds in a month is very good. Well done!

                   


                  "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                  "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                  http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                    Jimmy, C-R

                     

                    I'm curious to know what I should be looking for when comparing the test results? What should they be telling me about the corrolation between the test miles?

                     

                    I read alot about base building and I get the concept. Everything I read states you need to build your aerobic base before adding tempo, interval, etc. type training runs and want to know when I know my aerobic base is sufficiently built?

                     

                    The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                     

                    2014 Goals:

                     

                    Stay healthy

                    Enjoy life

                     

                    C-R


                      Well jimmy is the mafmaven so I defer to his more technical knowledge but for me I want to see a downward curve on the time for the MAF test. By this I am looking to see my avg pace reduce from one test to the next. No set percentage of reduction but rather a trend. Any deviation from this downward pace trend is an indicator of system stress and that I need to re-evaluate my training regimine.

                       

                      Now that being said, I believe if all you are doing is base training you will be capped at some point in the pace reduction. What I mean is that to run fast you need to run fast (relatively speaking of course). Tempo, intervals and hills all help to increase stride frequency, stride efficiency and strength which are crucial to enhancing one's speed capability. Aerobic or base training build the engine that lets you maintain that speed over distance. Without getting myself tied into too many knots, the base period will show dramatic improvements in pace on a percentage basis but at some point these will level. At that point you add your anaerobic work and you move to a different plateau where your base training will start again.

                       

                      Taking your recent result of an 18 second improvement in a month. That is a 2.4% improvement. At some point this will shrink and you will be ready for aneraobic or races. At that point your aerobic improvements may return to this level and reduce once again till you reach the nexy plateau and eventually you will reach your overall capabilities. Mind you this is just my theory. I did not have the discipline to actually keep the proper data from my runs to prove this but it seems logical based on my readings and personal experience. This winter I plan to go through my logs to see if I can build on this. Perhaps jimmy already has or Dr. P has it in his texts (I can not fully recall but that's why I read books multiple times - I'm a slower learner)

                       

                      I hope this helps. Look for decreasing percentages but my gut tells me that the 12 or 16 week cycle is about spot on. The key thing about adding speed or tempo work is that you need a body that is ready to handle the stresses without breaking down - this means more miles which is what base building allows you to do.


                      "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                      "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                      http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                      jimmyb


                        Great post, Norm. Right on the money. Chapter 7, page 69 in The Maffetone Method has some info on plateaus.

                         

                        In your tests, you really are looking for overall improvement from test to test. The difference in pace between your first and last mile will eventually shrink as you get faster.  Most likely a test done in 70º will have a bigger spread between the first and last mile than a test done in 45º. Keep that in mind.

                         

                        It's really up to you when to end the base period. You might consider returning to it if your MAF tests start to regress at any point during race season. Beginners, runners who are coming off over-training, injury, or illness might need more than 16 weeks of base work to get ready for racing and anaerobic work. For example,  me and where I am at and choosing to do. Came into this base phase over-trained, and want my MAF tests to improve to certain pace before adding any speed work. It's already been 10 months, and I might need another 10.

                         

                         

                        --Jimmy

                         

                         

                         

                        Log    PRs

                          I did a MAF test tonight on the treadmill. I ran 3.9 miles today at noon over my lunch break, so I'm not sure how good these numbers are since it was my second run with 7 hours rest. I wanted to get some more time in today, so I decided to see how a MAF test would go.

                           

                           

                          0.25 mile warm up

                           

                          Mile 1 = 11:00.....Ave HR = 138
                          Mile 2 = 11:25.....Ave HR = 140
                          Mile 3 = 12:04.....Ave HR = 140
                          Mile 4 = 11:49.....Ave HR = 142

                          Mile 4.1 = 11:58....Ave HR = 143

                           

                          0.25 mile cooldown with stretching afterwards

                           

                          Average MAF Test HR = 140

                          Maf Test Max HR = 143

                          Average pace = 11:36

                           

                           

                          I ran at MAF 140 for about 3.5 miles, then decided to pick it up to 143 for another 0.6 miles. I have been using 143 as my daily run target HR lately becasue I have been running pretty consistantly for over a year now with no injuries or illnesses and showing progression the entire time. The Maffetone method allows a bump of 5 beats for a two year stint with progression and no illnesses or injuries so I added half of that for my one plus stint. Not sure if I should have or not, but it seems alot easier to maintain a 142-143 average then a 139-140 average. I'll continue with a MAF HR of 140 for my MAF Test so I can compare apples to apples.

                           

                          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                           

                          2014 Goals:

                           

                          Stay healthy

                          Enjoy life

                           


                          Consistently Slow

                            I did a MAF test tonight on the treadmill. I ran 3.9 miles today at noon over my lunch break, so I'm not sure how good these numbers are since it was my second run with 7 hours rest. I wanted to get some more time in today, so I decided to see how a MAF test would go.

                             

                             

                            You may want to color code your maff test so they are easier  to locate. Second run of the day and Maff test came in at 11+. Nice

                             

                            PS:

                            Did you do a warm up? If not, your maff is closer to the 2nd and 3nd mile times.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                            2013***1500 miles

                            50 miler

                            Race Less Train More

                             

                            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                            "The Marble in The Groove"

                             

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                              You may want to color code your maff test so they are easier  to locate. Second run of the day and Maff test came in at 11+. Nice

                               

                              PS:

                              Did you do a warm up? If not, your maff is closer to the 2nd and 3nd mile times.

                               

                              I did a 0.25 mile warm up, I didn't record or log the warm up or Golden so it isn't shown at all in the data. The warm up was shorter then the two previous MAF tests only because I had already ran that day and I was originally just looking for extra mileage, then decided to do a test. Thats also why I didn't get the full five miles in.

                               

                              Thanks for mentioning that I coded it wrong, its been changed. Again, I'm not sure I'm going to put a whole lot of stock in this test not just because it was run number two for the day, but also because my warm up routine was shorter. Looks like I need to be more consistent.

                               

                              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                               

                              2014 Goals:

                               

                              Stay healthy

                              Enjoy life

                               

                                MAF test yesterday. I didn't start out with a MAF test in mind but once I got going, I decided to make it a MAF test. I was planning on an easy day yesterday because I did a 10.09 mile (111 laps) run on the same track the day before so an easy day was in order.

                                 

                                This is the first time I have performed the test indoors on the YMCA running track. The track is very short with 11 laps to a mile. Indoor temp 70.

                                 

                                1 mile warm up 10:28 with a Ave HR or 135. I spent some time stretching before the mile run.

                                 

                                Mile 1 = 10:48......Ave HR 139

                                Mile 2 = 10:54......Ave HR 140

                                Mile 3 = 10:53......Ave HR 140

                                Mile 4 = 11:02......Ave HR 140

                                Mile 5 = 11:00......Ave HR 140

                                 

                                0.36 mile cool down.

                                 

                                Overall the run felt pretty good.

                                 

                                The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                                 

                                2014 Goals:

                                 

                                Stay healthy

                                Enjoy life

                                 

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