Low HR Training

123

Your experiences with LHR training (Read 1246 times)

    As I mentioned in another recent post, I am new to this forum and LHR, and have finally been sold on the idea. I love its simplicity; train in a certain HR zone, slowly add mileage, and track progress, which is easy to do. I have faith that if I stick with it, it will work for me.

     

    If some of you are willing to share, I would love to hear about your experiences with LHR, especially when you first started out. What kinds of paces were your running, how did your paces improve and over what period, any setbacks you may have had, how strict you were in sticking with the program, etc.

     

    As a relative newcomer to running and especially LHR, it really inspires me to read about others accomplishments and triumphs and these will no doubt motivate me to stick with this over the long term.

     

    C-R


      First MAF tests were in the 10:45 range.. Currently 8:15. Time between was about 13 months.

       

       

      If you have patience and stick to the strategy, you will see some great results in aerobic capacity. The biggest win I've received from MAF training is that I simply love running and look forward to my next run.

       


      "He conquers who endures" - Persius
      "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

      http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

        AbsoluteRunner, Thanks for Starting this thread.  I am also curious to hear peoples overal experience.

         

        CarmelRunner, I did not know you started in the high 10s.  I certainly recalled that your improvemnt was large.  But, over two minutes is really terrific. 

         

        I follow all the posts, and occasionally look through peoples logs to see how they have progressed, but I still can't recall where people were and where they are now, but a thread that summarizes how people benefitted (or did not benefit?) from LHR training would be interesting.

         

        My experience is that I spent my 20s and 30s and 40s playing a lot of basketball, a sport that requires and develops some aerobic capacity, but not the same as running.  I would also jog in the summer, but I did it the same way I did basketball, all out or hardly at all.  In other words, I ran every run about as fast as I could, but not very oftern or very long.  I actually developed enough fitness to enter 5k races.  And I did not do badly, but I felt like I was always on the verge of injury, and I did not feel healthy.

         

        So, I did a lot of Internet searches and came across a lot of information about how to build a base, and how important that is, blah blah.  It did not register.  I just had this mentality about "quality".  Then I came across Jesse's FAQ, and it was like "Wow, now I get it".  And I have been a convert ever since.

         

        When I started (Jan 2008), my first MAF mile was in the mid to high 10s, but the rest were in the 12s.   After about 6 months of MAF training, my MAF pace was probably in the high 10s.  For the next year after that I had plateaued  in the high 10s.  I was only running about 15 miles per week over that time.  I recently have had another jump in improvement and now run in the low 10s.  The improvement came from two sources:  I have upped mileage to 25 miles per week, and I lost about 8 pounds.

         

        So, in summary, I think I have learned that just running at MAF, by itself, is only part of the solution to seeing improvement.  You also need the miles.  But, MAF allows you to be able to do those miles that you need to see improvement.  I have been running 25 miles per week now for about 6 weeks, and I want to see where the increased mileage will take my MAF pace.

         

        As far as race times.  Before MAF, my best 5K race was about 23:30.  Since MAF, I have improved to about a 22:30.  So, it did not make a tremendous improvement to my 5k time, but before MAF, I would not have been able to complete a 10K, now I am confident I probably coud do OK in one.

         

         

        jimmyb


          My Aerobic Manifesto

          After several years of power-walking, and a lot of no-cart golf, I started running in March 2003 at age 42. Little did I know that running would replace golf. I had made what was to be last golf shot the previous fall (a chip-in for birdie on 18 to win all my matches). My guitar student, a cross country runner, had infected me with the running bug. He suggested running the 4th of July race in Cumberland, RI. I started with one lap of the track, built to two, and eventually could run 5 miles. I had so much fun at the 4-mile race, placing mid-pack in 31 minutes, and being blown away by the positive ritualistic nature of the event. My next race was  a 5-miler a week later. Two weeks after that, I decided to run a ten-miler. I then proceeded to run a race every week the rest of summer. There came a point when I started to get slower and slower. I began to educate myself about running.

          I liked the idea of using a heart rate monitor and began to use it to keep myself in the 75-80% MHR range on hard days. I don't remember all the specifics, as I lost all my 1st year logs when Coolrunning crashed one day (since then I always use my own logs). I set my sights on a half-marathon in November. After a week of nerves and sleeplessness, I finished the race in 1:51, a 8:31 pace. I was happy to finish. I took it easy during the uphill first half of that race and finished strong. In the Spring, I hit the wall in a half-marathon (New Bedford). The last two miles were a struggle, and I came whimpering in. I dove into research and found the Hadd training. I set my sights on my first marathon on  October 31,  2004 (Cape Cod). I started a thread on Coolrunning for heart-rate training. That's when Jesse (Formationflyer here on RunningAhead--Leitnerj on CoolRunning)  came into the fold and began his HRT journey. I began the training in late April 2004.

          I didn't know about the idea of an aerobic base period at the time. The Hadd training was hard/easy with the hard days a progressively harder effort (higher HR) on the hard days. The idea being to push back the lactate threshold. I ran  5 hard races between May and October as well, including one 20 days out from the marathon. Along the way, I included intervals and hills done between 90-95% MHR. I peaked out at 73 miles per week and 24 miles for the longest run, which took me 4:14:34 to run. I would peak out at about 156 bpm by the end of the run.

          I was still uneducated about over-training. In hindsight, I over-trained. By the time the taper came, I had a sore ankle, pain in my leg, and a numbness problem in my foot. Two weeks out, I strained a hip flexor. My goal in the race was to break 4 hours. I ran a 4:14:47 and struggled through a death-march after mile 19. It was a rewarding experience in having finished, but I was disappointed that I had hit the wall. I also felt a bit of public embarrassment on the thread, as it seemed that my training didn't work. In retrospect, besides the over-training, I also made the mistake of eating pancakes an hour before the race. I know now not to eat that close to the race. How much it played a part in the hitting the wall is unknown, but I believe it was a factor.

          I set my sights on the 2005 Vermont City Marathon. After reading Pfiitzinger's and Douglas's Advanced Marathoning, I decided that I hadn't working hard enough last time out! After a two week rest, I ran a hard race on New Year's Day and started an aerobic base period of about 7 weeks. My hard days I peaked out at 82% MHR (165 bpm), and my easy days I ran at 75% MHR (149 bpm). After 7 weeks, I ran a leg of a marathon relay in Hyannis, and started LT runs. I ran a PR 1:38 in a half marathon in March (New Bedford). An improvement of 8 minutes on the same course as a year earlier, with no wall. Things were looking up.
           
          A few days later, for the first time in my life, my back went out and seized up. I could barely  get out of bed. I began yoga immediately, though it sounded like primal scream therapy. Of course, I still ran. My back was better within a few weeks.   I peaked out at 22 miles (3:21) and 65 miles per week. Overall, I ran less mileage than the training for my first marathon. By the time of the taper, I started to experience a high resting heart rate, and a slowing at the same HR in training. My hip flexor was bothering me. I ran much better, finishing with a 3:45:53. Though, I still hit a wall at about mile 22-23. I managed to speed up a little in the end, learning a big mental lesson, but I was still in a wall.

          In comparison to my first marathon, the Pfitzinger training seemed to work. In retrospect, I still over-trained and went to that race on unhealthy legs. My HR was telling me so, but I didn't know that then.

          I set my sights on the 2005 Philadelphia Marathon in November. Some time that year, Jesse started to train with the Maffetone Method and began to see success. He started the first of his several awesome MAF threads on Coolrunning. That's when I became aware of MAF training. I did a summer racing season with a few nice PR's.

          I began marathon training at the end of August. Again, I was following Pfitzinger. In September, I decided to start using my MAF heart rate for my easy days. I was thinking that if I ran easier on my easy days it might help the tired legs I was running on. Again, there was no real aerobic base period, just hard training. I peaked at 72 miles per week 8 weeks out. About 6 weeks out from the marathon, I ran a 1:36 half marathon in Newport, a PR. After, that, I was spent. I cut my mileage way down and took more rest than usual, still using MAF for at least half of my runs.

          I ran a 3:28 BQ at the marathon. Even splits. In retrospect, I did 3 things different for this marathon. I finally rested for a change when I was tired and sore during training. I ran MAF HR for my easy days. I ate three hours before the race, instead of 1 hour as in the first two.

          In the meantime, Jesse was entering Karno-land, doing some amazing feats of endurance and experiencing great times, all on sub-MAF training. I decided to give MAF it a full-try. I took a week off from running then started right in with a 40-mile week. The following week, I injured something near my knee in lower left leg. Still in the old "train through it" thinking, I continued to run. The injury got  worse.  I stopped running for nearly 3 weeks. I started back up with the MAF training in January 2006. The injury still bothered me, so I thought I'd incorporate a bit of Galloway into the training. I began to run for a few minutes, then walk for a few minutes. That kept the pain at bay; within 3 weeks, I was running everything with no pain.

          My intention was to do a base period from December thru the end of March for the Boston Marathon. Since I didn't get started until January, I chose to do the Sugarloaf Marathon in Maine in May, and use Boston as a training run.  My training times improved, as did my MAF tests. By the time of the goal race in May, my MAF tests had dropped from 10:35 to 9:26 pace, despite having put on ten pounds due to overeating. My mom had died in December, and I handled my grief the usual way...consuming mass quantities of food. I ran Boston and Sugarloaf weighing 181 pounds,. My usual weight was about 170. I began some uptempo HR in April, mostly MAF +10 at the end of long runs (150 bpm). That still kept me at 70% HRR. I tried this instead of doing Pfitzinger's (165 bpm).

          Boston was a lot of fun. I did no taper, but took extra rest the week before the race. I ran it in 3:52 (1:58/1:54), I wore my HRM and  kept my HR 10-15 beats lower than I would normally do a marathon. Even though it was a training run, my legs felt like I had run a normal marathon. The Boston hills left my quads swiss-cheesy for half a week. The thing I found surprising was the feeling of strength and endurance I had during the race. I had never had that feeling before.

          After the race, I took one day off and then ran a total of 80 miles that week, followed by another 80 mile week, and then a 65. The day of the Sugarloaf marathon, which ended up being 10º warmer than Philly, I felt a bit tired. I still ran a good race--a BQ--only 2 minutes slower than Philly. Negative split (1:49/1:41). I ran my fastest miles at the end. Considering I was a porker and it was warm, I ran my best marathon ever. In retrospect, running the Boston Marathon was not a good training idea, as I think it took something out of my legs at Sugarloaf. Still, I wouldn't change it, as running Boston was one of the highlight's in my life.

          After the marathon, I continued with using the 70% HRR for the long run and MAF training for the rest. This resulted in a 1:12 ten-mile course and distance PR in 80º at The Blessing Of The Fleet in Narragansett, RI. I ran one more race that summer. After that race, I wanted to experiment more. I wanted to try running 100 miles per week.

          I set my sights on the 2006 Philadelphia Marathon in November. I decided to do an 9 week base period. I hopped up from a summer average of about 35 miles per week to 76 miles the first week, then to 100 miles during each of the next 3 weeks, followed by a rest week, then 3 more consecutive 100 mile weeks. I kept 95% of my mileage below MAF -10 (131). I did some of the end of the longest runs, the last few miles, at MRP, and some at MAF of 141. I brought my MAF tests down to 8:31 per mile. I dropped weight. My body was handling it. I had no sore spots, no injuries. I was sleeping well, and was improving. I decided to run the Newport half-marathon again in October, as I did the prior year before Philly. I smoked my course and distance PR by 4 minutes, having run 40 miles as a rest week going into the race. I had never run a half-marathon so strongly and with such a feeling of effortlessness (1:34:27).

          That's when I lost my mind.

          I began to believe I was living in Karno-land (Dean Karnazes), thinking I could do what Jesse was doing. I had arrived as an aerobigod. Normally, I would always rest and run little after a hard race. I took one day off after the Newport Half, and proceeded to run 87 miles. I was doing okay until my long run that Sunday. I did a long run for the first time with someone else (I can count on one hand the number of times I've run with someone else during training). I ran with a 2:50 marathoner. We  got progressively faster and faster, way past my MRP. I was running near 5k pace by the end. In the very last mile, something gave in my right heel. It hurt, but I could walk. The next morning, it was painful but got better as the day went on. I cut down to 34 miles that week. The pain wasn't excruciating, but it wasn't normal, and hurt more in the morning. Come to find out, it was plantar fasciitis.  I did two more 60 mile weeks and one long run, all at or under MAF.

          The marathon felt easy and effortless, though the pain in my foot got worse near the end. I decided not to do my usual push in the last 2-3 miles. I didn't see the point in bashing my foot for an extra minute or two. I just kept an even effort, when I could have easily sped up. I finished with a 3:22 PR BQ.  The 3rd all-out marathon in a row without a wall. My 3rd BQ in the span of a year.

          In retrospect, I think the 100-mile per week at MAF -10 experiment was successful UNTIL I made my training mistake after the half-marathon. I learned from that experience that recovery principles can't be ignored. I might have made it through healthy if I ran 40 easy miles that week instead of 87 with a hard long run. Then again, the PF might have been coming anyway. After much research on PF, I came to the conclusion that part of my problem was my footwear. The inflexible, heavy trainers with the plastic, splinting crap on the bottom had made my feet weak. Weak feet and strong lower legs is not a good mix. I finally cured the PF by switching to the flexible Nike Free, walking around barefoot, and doing feet strengthening. It hasn't returned.

          In Spring, 2007, my mind hadn't yet returned to sanity.  I trained all the way through May with lower mileage and a lot of speedwork, with MAF  mixed in. MAF tests became irregular, dropping to 9:53 per mile from the 8:31 in the Fall.  I beat my 5k Pr by 11 seconds in May, but I felt like crap. Crap!! Craaaaaaaaap! I decided to dedicate myself to MAF training for the rest of the year. This ended up being a good decision as life got pretty stressful that summer. I used 129 bpm as an MAF ceiling,  raising to 135 bpm near the end of the year. mainly because I thought it worked so well in the fall, not because I was following Dr. Phil's adjustments for feeling like crap. CRAP. CRAAAAAAAP!

          I saw little improvement in MAF tests during the stressful time, and after things returned to normal they began to improve. At the time, I didn't make the connection between the stress and the stagnant MAF tests. At the end of the year, I decided to run the 2008 Vermont City Marathon.

          I began 2008 having a solid 6 month aerobic base under my belt from the second half of 2007. I decided to bring back Pfitzinger back in for medium and long runs, keeping MAF on easy days. I ran lactate threshold runs. My body was handling it, my MAF tests were improving. Down to 9:11 by the end of March. My last one before the marathon showed no more improvement, and a slight regression, not much at all. The marathon was one of the toughest I had experienced, as the temperatures rose to a sunny 73º. I ran a 3:38. This was actually a very good performance, as I realized by mile 13 that my body was stressing in the heat, and decided to slow down to a pace it could handle in the heat. If it was 50º, the story would have been much different. Still, I made a course PR. After the race, I did a brief, lackluster summer race season, at the end of which I took on some big creative projects and the job of taking care of my ailing Dad. This was all on top of my normal work load.

          I started training for the 2008 Seattle Marathon (Nov. 30th). I returned to my MAF of 141 bpm. This comes from the formula of (180-age +5 beats). I was now 47 years old, but Dr. Phil mentions in the Maffetone Method that you can hang on to the same MAF for up to 5 years. So, of course, I was going to hang on to my 141. The stress continued through training. I peaked at 73 miles per week.

          I was seeing some improvement in some training runs, as the weather got colder, which could have been just the weather getting colder. My MAF tests were going absolutely nowhere. Stagnated at 9:50. Again, I wasn't making the connection between the stress and the aerobic stagnation. I did two MRP tempo runs that showed I could do the marathon at a 3:30-ish pace. But the MAF tests should have been about 9:20. I cut back big time during the taper, but did a lot of speedwork, experimenting with the volume cut-back and speed sharpening ideas that are out there. I ignored the MAF tests and attempted a 7:50-8:00 pace at the marathon. I crashed into the wall at mile 16  and death-marched for 10 more miles for a 4:08.

          In the weeks after the race, I reread Training For Endurance, and the chapters on stress and overtraining hit me in the head like an anvil. I had glossed over these chapters in my initial reading a few years back. He explains how he saw aerobic function diminish in athletes when extra or new life-stress was introduced into their lives. If they cut back their training, the aerobic function would start to improve. If they were able to lessen the life stress, the same thing would occur. This brought a serious case of retrospective review of my training. I had over-trained for most of my marathons. Some more than others. the worst being my first marathon, and the second worst being the Seattle Marathon. I could normally handle the mileage, but not with that kind of life- stress on top of it.

          This brought me to a new understanding of the Maffetone Method. I realized that the MAF test is the foundation. If your tests aren't improving, if they are going backwards, then your body is being over-stressed, you are becoming over-trained in some way. It could be life-stress, too much time on your feet, or a health problem. If you are injured, sore, and/or sick most of the time during training, then you are entering or in a state of over-training. The quest is aerobic speed. Maximize the speed at which you can run at MAF. This potential can't be reached if total stress (time training + life-stress) is too much.

          I dedicated 2009 to a complete aerobic rebuild with an extended aerobic base period of MAF training.  I  decided to begin the training as if a newbie to it. I lowered my MAF from 141 bpm (180-age+5 beats) to 128 bpm (180-age -5 beats).
           
          2009 has been very stressful already, but I've reduced my training to unheard of before levels for me. Overall, my MAF tests have improved since January. Though they have regressed since my born and bread New England body hit the summer heat here in Georgia. The life-stress is diminishing a bit, and hopefully, will be much less by September. I am remaining healthy and am just trying to keep my ego in check, and get through this period. I love running and training 6 days a week, and much more time on my feet. It's been hard and not much fun not being able to train like I used to, to be holding myself back. If I would have stayed in Rhode Island, with none of this relocation poo, I would have  progressed much quicker. But this is the life I chose.  I know what I want, and how I am going to get there. I am also willing to give as much time as needed. I want to be out there racing. The way I figure it, I put in 6 hard years of racing and training. It was a blast. I want to be able to do that until my 80's. If I put in a year or two rebuilding a healthy body and it gives me 20-30 more years of healthy racing, then it is worth the sacrifice.

           

          --Jimmy

          Log    PRs

            Wow Jimmy, that was quite the story, thanks for taking the time to share.

             

             

            It takes a lot of faith to read about a theory ( in this case LHR of course ) and to devote months or years in the hopes that it will be beneficial, especially when it goes against mainstream thinking. Reading about your real life experiences with the theory really helps to put it in perpective and I'm sure will give newcomers like myself a better and more realistic idea of what to expect.

             

            Carmel, that is a pretty impressive improvement for 13 months.

             

            On most of my recent runs, I've averaged about 14 min/mi pace which feels like a snails crawl ( although its been REALLY hot and humid ). I ran a hilly course the other day and reached speeds of 11 min/mi and it seemed like I was flying!! I can't even begin to imagine running MAF at an 8-9 min pace. Boggles my mind!

             

            Thanks again for your replies.

            jimmyb


              Wow Jimmy, that was quite the story, thanks for taking the time to share.

               

               

              It takes a lot of faith to read about a theory ( in this case LHR of course ) and to devote months or years in the hopes that it will be beneficial, especially when it goes against mainstream thinking. Reading about your real life experiences with the theory really helps to put it in perpective and I'm sure will give newcomers like myself a better and more realistic idea of what to expect.

               

              Carmel, that is a pretty impressive improvement for 13 months.

               

              On most of my recent runs, I've averaged about 14 min/mi pace which feels like a snails crawl ( although its been REALLY hot and humid ). I ran a hilly course the other day and reached speeds of 11 min/mi and it seemed like I was flying!! I can't even begin to imagine running MAF at an 8-9 min pace. Boggles my mind!

               

              Thanks again for your replies.

               

               

              You're welcome. Now my life story is written and ready for the future library and museum in my name. I f we get enough stories, we should make it a sticky.

               

               

              --Jimmy

               

              Log    PRs

              C-R


                Jimmy That was a great read and thanks for posting. I like the sticky idea and will do that later when we finish with our festival. I will also expand on my paltry MAF story as well. That was a really great read! Thanks.


                "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                lowgear1


                Max McMaffelow Esq.

                  Absolut,
                  I, like a lot of others, came to running the old fashioned way. I ran way too fast/hard for my own good.
                  I had a lot of disappointment and pain. A familiar story? Well, by the grace of God, I found LHR, MAF, CoolRunning, etc. So, just as many before me have testified, I've put my running future totally in the hands of LHR/MAF
                  Now I'm a believer! There's not a trace of doubt in my mind that this stuff works!!

                  Well, here, see for yourself..

                  Have absolute faith in MAF

                  lg

                  ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                  Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                  ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)


                  Consistently Slow

                    jimmy- great read.

                     

                    lowgear- loved the Monkees

                     

                     

                    Now need to re-read after MAF training.

                     

                    Jimmyb  looks like you were running over 2000 miles a year when you BQ. So,did the  mileage get you there  or did the Maf traing enable you to get the mileage?

                     

                    May do a Maff test tomorrow. 113 miles for July. Planning 120 for August.  Would like to stay under 2.5 hours on any run but not convinved that will get me to the marathon.

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                    2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                    50miler 13:26:18

                    Race Less Train More

                     Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                    Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                    "The Marble in The Groove"

                     

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                    jimmyb


                      Jimmyb  looks like you were running over 2000 miles a year when you BQ. So,did the  mileage get you there  or did the Maf traing enable you to get the mileage?

                       

                       

                      That's a loaded question (s). Any of the two possible answers points to volume being the main factor. If I say mileage, then it was the volume. If I say MAF helped me run the mileage (by virtue of lesser load), then it still was the volume. It leaves out the aerobic, fat-burning development that played such a huge part in my endurance.

                       

                      Volume cannot be discounted in the equation. Zero miles gets you absolutely nowhere, and the upper possible volume limit before it kills you gets you at the very least over-trained, if not close to death.

                       

                      If you look at my 100-mile per week experiment, running at MAF-10 surely kept me from over-training, and when I got too fast and didn't allow recovery, I got injured. It was a load issue.

                       

                      I was able to run some 70+ weeks back when I wasn't doing MAF training. I could do them when I MAF trained. There was a qualitative difference in how I felt when I ran marathons with an MAF base phase under my belt as to when I didn't have one.

                       

                      One of the questions I'm attempting to answer during this phase that I am in is: how much time is really necessary? When I ran the 100-mile weeks, could I have achieved the same performance on 60? 80? I was running 18- 20 hours a week during that experiment. Could I have run 10 hours and achieved the same results?

                       

                      I've adjusted my training to a time-based one. I have an ultimate time goal in mind--about 8-9 hours, though 6-7 might be where I peak, depends on my MAF tests. The peak amount of time for a long run will be 2:30:00. If I can get my MAF test paces down to a comparable time as to when I ran my BQ's, will I be able to run a comparable performance, even though my weekly mileage ended up being just (e.g) 50 miles and my 2.5 hour long run just 15 miles?  Since I began, I have been following the "you have to do 20-milers" dogma during marathon training. Both Jack Daniels and Dr. Phil challenge that notion and say that you shouldn't spend more time on your feet than an elite athlete does. My amateur two hour run is equally as stressful as the elite's two hour run (when done at the same HR or level of effort). The elite can get 18-20 miles in, and maybe I can only do 13, but it is the same training effect. I want to explore those notions. I'm pretty sure I would get to the marathon a bit more healthy then when I religiously pushed 70 miles per week and got in 5-7 twenty milers. How I do in a marathon will be seen someday. Someday.

                       

                      --Jimmy

                       

                      Log    PRs


                      Consistently Slow

                        Jimmyb,

                         

                        Thanks. I will stay with maff 2.5 hour long run and see where  I land. To BQ would be great but the main goal( LHT )

                        is to avoid injury. The 1000 mile year as alluded me for almost 10 years    ! This should be the year. Thank you to everyone on this forum for helping to keep me  in check and avoiding old habits.

                        Run until the trail runs out.

                        2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                        50miler 13:26:18

                        Race Less Train More

                         Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                        Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                        "The Marble in The Groove"

                         

                        unsolicited chatter

                        http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                        jimmyb


                          Jimmyb,

                           

                          Thanks. I will stay with maff 2.5 hour long run and see where  I land. To BQ would be great but the main goal( LHT )

                          is to avoid injury. The 1000 mile year as alluded me for almost 10 years    ! This should be the year. Thank you to everyone on this forum for helping to keep me  in check and avoiding old habits.

                           

                           

                          The beauty of the MAF test is that it will help you find your optimum training load. You can push the envelope until the MAF tests say back-off. Your optimum yearly mileage might end up being 900 or 1900. I was into the 2000+ thing in the past. Thought of it as an achievement. In one way, it is. But if training is supposed to serve racing, and health is a goal, then finding the true optimum is what is important, not the total ( whether it be aerobic base or anaerobic work). Now, time to make my 2228th trip to the fridge since January 1st. Looking to break 10,000 this year. Interesting thing I've learned during my endurance fridging: 19 out of every 20 trips and looks, there is nothing new in there.

                           

                          --Jimmy

                          Log    PRs

                            Thanks for sharing everybody, especially Jimmy who I feel is the Godfather of this forum.

                             

                            My experiences......

                             

                            I grew up right outside of Boston and grew up watching the Boston Marathon each year in April. We always have April break that week so I would always have that day to watch it. I occassionally would run a town road race that was a little under 3 miles (which I never really did that good at) and then run home to watch the race. Fast forward to college where it was my senior year and I always wanted to run a marathon, just didn't have the time to train (or didn't put it on the top of my priority list). I graduted college and said ok, now I need to look into this and start training.

                             

                            I graduated in the Spring of 2005 and signed up for the Disney Marathon in January 2006. I ran in high school (1 year of XC and 4 years of track, but ran hurdles in track), and I ran sporadically on my own in college. I followed Hal Higdons beginnner training program and followed it exactly day by day. I went online and figured out to run Boston I would have to run 3:10 for my age group. I didn't think that I would qualify on my first try, but it was in the back of my head. Training went pretty good, but had some pretty awful runs of 20 miles. The weather here in New England is unpredictable, so it was December (1 month before my marathon) and about 60 or 70 degrees at one point. That should have been an indicator that I needed to train more. I ran the race and did all of the mistakes that a 1st time marathoner does, didn't drink anything the first 10 miles, went out way to hard, etc...Needless to say I finished in 4:34, mostly walking the last 6-8 miles.

                             

                            That Spring, I ran a few 5k's and enjoyed the races, but still had no real clue what I was doing. I was following some random online training programs and just running. I even placed 2nd in one and got this silver medal which I thought was really cool.

                             

                            Due to my work being crazy with travel and the amount of hours I was working, I did not run another marathon until the Cape Cod Marathon in October of 2007. This time I followed Hal Higdons Advanced training program and peaked out at 80 miles. I thought I was very prepared and had a better chance of coming closer to my ultimate goal of 3:10. One thing I was not prepared for was the hills. Training went better for this marathon than the first one, including 3 - 20 mile runs this time and even felt good during them. But I was running them mostly on a bike path that is very flat. So I PR'd in my second marathon, but still ran it in 4:14. I was pretty frustrated. I did not expect to BQ this time, but I did want to be under 4 hours.

                             

                            A few weeks after that marathon I stumbled across the LHR forum on coolrunning.com. I read about as much as I could on it and then ordered the books. I emailed Jimmy and Jesse with a few questions and they were extremely helpful. So I was hooked. I think the main problem I was having with my training was that I was running to hard and had no clue what pace to do my runs at. Maff gave me a little structure to follow to make sure I wasn't running all of these miles to hard. I think I ran my first 4 mile maff test in about 12 minutes per mile pace. I doubted myself initially and wondered how the heck I would evey qualify for Boston if I am running 12 minutes per mile pace when I have to run a 7:10 pace to get into that race.

                             

                            I basebuilded from November to April of 2008 and ran a few races in April and May. I PR'd in 2.5 mi and 5k races that Spring and then I ran my first half marathon. I didn't know what I would be able to run it in, so I just went and ran it in 1:39:50. That Summer I continued to train and signed up for the Bay State Marathon for the Fall. Bay State is a flat marathon, so I knew the hills wouldn't kill me this time. My goal was to break 4 hours. I came up with my own running schedule based on what I had learned from Maff and the LHR forums. I pretty much ran more and made sure to keep my easy runs below Maff. I ran the Bay State Marathon that Fall in 3:50. BUT, I felt strong and did not get hurt or injured AND recovered really well from it while PR'ing by 24 minutes. I was excited for the next 6 months of basebuilding to see what I could get my time down to the following Fall.

                             

                            This past Winter I basebuilded and basebuilded and ran and ran some more. From November to April, I stayed below Maff. January, February, and March were the most that I had ever run, and I was healthy. March I went up to 360 miles and my highest weekly total was 100. I decided on trying some downhill sprints and had picked out a few races to do that Spring. I ran a 5k and PR'd by 2 minutes, I ran a 2.5 mile race and PR'd by a minute, and I ran the same half marathon and PR'd from 1:39 to 1:26. I placed at pretty much all the smaller races that I had done and most importantly. I was stronger and healthier, hardly ever getting sore. I ran pretty much all of the time below Maff during this time except during races.

                             

                            I hope all of this training pays off this Fall when I run the Hartford Marathon. I think this year I can Qualify for Boston. The half in May that I ran is a good indication that I can qualify since I ran it in 1:26, but we'll see what happens.

                             

                            Now I don't know if LHR has made me a faster runner. I believe that it gives me a guideline as to what to run all of my runs at and keep me healthy. I believe that all of the mileage that I have put in has made me a faster runner. So I think that it is a combination of both. I also think the more you put in to it, the more you get out of it. The more you run, the faster you get. If you keep your runs below Maff, then you have a better chance at staying healthy. My Maff tests were in the 12's and now they are in the 7's and I consistantly run low to mid 8's (well before the Summer humidity started).

                             

                            I really want to run Boston, but I also want to run until I'm 80 like Jimmy and I believe that Maff is the way to go.

                             

                            Below are my race differences:

                            Race                  Before Maff        After Maff

                            Maff Test                 12:32                 7:33

                            2.5 Mile                   16:20                 14:26

                            5k                             20:40                 18:18

                            Marathon                4:34                     3:50

                             

                              bzaganjo,

                               

                               

                              That's a great MAF success story, best of luck to you qualifying for Boston.


                              Hawt and sexy

                                Oh wow.  I found this group back when we were at the old CR forum in '06.  At the time, I was a go hard or go home runner dealing with PF and constant soreness.  My first summer MAFing had me at 16 mm.  I ran my first marathon that Oct.  I kept at it and BQed at NJ Marathon in '08 (an hour faster than my first marathon, but only 3 mins faster than my second), but I didn't go to Boston.  I am still at it.  I really don't keep track of paces too much during the summer anymore.  I moved, so between the heat and the new hilly routes I chosse, my paces are apples to ornges.  I just look at my downhill paces to see where I might fit into things and go from there.  My treadmill time have gone from 15mm to 9mm.  I would like to see 8mm on the treadmill someday for training paces, but no hurries, no worries.  I feel at my best after heavy mileage, but that's just me.

                                I'm touching your pants.

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