Low HR Training

1

weight training and MAF (Read 59 times)

Runslowalksalot


    Any trainer or coach will tell you that the off season/base training  phase is the time to incorporate weight training.   However, according to Maffletone, it's anaerobic and  to be avoided.  Running is not my only activity, paddling almost requires weight training.   It's off season for that as well so I make sure to recover between sets to keep my HR below my Maf while lifting.

      So if we're not supposed to weight train while in a maf phase, when do we?   Pre competitive phase?   Before intervals?

    AlexVan


      I would say Maffetone says create an amazing aerobic engine during a long base phase, after that do what ever you want as long as you keep that aerobic engine in top shape, for most people that means limited weight training. Others on this forum probably have better insight but I would say, since it seems like you exercise a lot, and so at the MINIMUM if you see consistent MAF test improvement for 3 months you could start adding in other training such as weights in small quantity and see if it affects this progress.  Probably most recommendations would be longer than 3 months. Measuring your recovery by using resting morning heart rate, orthostatic (rusko) test or my preferred method is HRV (ithlete OR hrvplus app) can really help make sure you stay on track.  If you are trying to do endurance exercise 5-6 days a week weight training might not allow your body to get as rested as it needs to fully recover.

      Runslowalksalot


        That looks like a great app!   Unfortunately I use a Garmin.   What are th  others of which you spoke?   I'm unfamiliar with them.

          I plan to stay of Maf or at least 6 months.   I keep my lifting to once a week, twice if the weather just stinks. I'm really in maintanece mode, I don't want to lose my hard earned gains over  we the last few years, but I also don't want to get any bigger.

        BeeRunB


          http://www.philmaffetone.com/strength-training-part-1

          This article goes deeper into his views. Like in the article, I get most of my strength training from yard work (with some yoga core-strengthening). I do yardwork when it's required, whether it be in a base phase or not. Sometimes, I need to cut back on the running the next day or two to recover.

           

          My view is this: your aerobic speed will let you know if your anaerobic training load is affecting your aerobic one. Follow your MAF tests. If your aerobic system is progressing nicely though the base period, while weightlifting, then your training load is okay. If you're speed is stagnating, or regressing, then something needs to be adjusted. It might be the weightlifting, or it could be something else. But if you want to keep progressing, then you have to experiment and figure it out.

           

          You're an individual. Which means that it's entirely possible that you could be used to weightlifting on a regular basis, then add training at MAF into the mix, and progress aerobically.

           

          Follow your MAF tests.

          AlexVan


            Yes as Jimmi says it's all about MAF test, but if you can make sure you are recovering properly that helps. Just google search Rusko test, and you can do that with your garmin.  Maffetone also talks about HRV testing In his last book.

              here is a new and relevant study:

               

              https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=6520FF87932545EC!2057&authkey=!ADNg7KR5DWG-Qss&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

               

              this says that resistance (anaerobic) training after aerobic endurance training will increase aerobic response to training by 100% compared to endurance training only.

               

              the muscles' oxidative capacity will increase more.

               

              they determined that by the most direct and reliable method, by taking muscle biopsies.

               

              I guess it's of course individual what training load one can take, so start small to be sure your weight training in addition to the aerobic exercise is not too much training load

               

              I actually don't think you need to do that much weigh training to get the basic benefits. I did find positive effect of adding pretty basic strength training myself (I did it with only body weight btw)

                Any trainer or coach will tell you that the off season/base training  phase is the time to incorporate weight training.   However, according to Maffletone, it's anaerobic and  to be avoided.  Running is not my only activity, paddling almost requires weight training.   It's off season for that as well so I make sure to recover between sets to keep my HR below my Maf while lifting.

                  So if we're not supposed to weight train while in a maf phase, when do we?   Pre competitive phase?   Before intervals?

                 

                I actually did my strength training last year in race session, that is, when I did interval sessions. I did start it in base training phase - near the end of it - but kept doing it in race session and that worked out well. I did it on interval day a few hours after intervals, though maybe it could be done immediately after the running workout but this way it was simpler for me

                 

                recovery of course was of utmost importance, I only did very very easy running on the days between those days (below 180-age incidentally Tongue)

                 

                in base building period I didn't have that sort of recovery run, just simple easy runs, the strength training fit in alright after the tempo runs. I'm not actually sure how maintainable that was because I did it like that only for a week Smile then I had my first race in the season then I started interval workouts. note that first race itself didn't go well, legs were dead in it after 5miles, either because I wasn't yet used to the strength training or because the base building didn't end in a good enough taper and pre-race season preparing, I just switched into racing without any gradual transition... that I believe wasn't a good idea but that's for another thread

                Sevver


                  here is a new and relevant study:

                   

                  https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=6520FF87932545EC!2057&authkey=!ADNg7KR5DWG-Qss&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

                   

                  this says that resistance (anaerobic) training after aerobic endurance training will increase aerobic response to training by 100% compared to endurance training only.

                   

                  the muscles' oxidative capacity will increase more.

                   

                  they determined that by the most direct and reliable method, by taking muscle biopsies.

                   

                  I guess it's of course individual what training load one can take, so start small to be sure your weight training in addition to the aerobic exercise is not too much training load

                   

                  I actually don't think you need to do that much weigh training to get the basic benefits. I did find positive effect of adding pretty basic strength training myself (I did it with only body weight btw)

                   

                  Hello,

                   

                  Can you tell me what book is in the picture?

                   

                  Thanks

                  Sevver


                    here is a new and relevant study:

                     

                    https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=6520FF87932545EC!2057&authkey=!ADNg7KR5DWG-Qss&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

                     

                    this says that resistance (anaerobic) training after aerobic endurance training will increase aerobic response to training by 100% compared to endurance training only.

                     

                    the muscles' oxidative capacity will increase more.

                     

                    they determined that by the most direct and reliable method, by taking muscle biopsies.

                     

                    I guess it's of course individual what training load one can take, so start small to be sure your weight training in addition to the aerobic exercise is not too much training load

                     

                    I actually don't think you need to do that much weigh training to get the basic benefits. I did find positive effect of adding pretty basic strength training myself (I did it with only body weight btw)

                     

                    Hello,

                     

                    Can you tell me what book is in the picture?

                     

                    Thanks

                       

                      Hello,

                       

                      Can you tell me what book is in the picture?

                       

                      Thanks

                       

                      No idea but I've asked my friend now (it's he who linked it to me)

                       

                      I will report here when I get the answer Smile

                      Sevver


                         

                        No idea but I've asked my friend now (it's he who linked it to me)

                         

                        I will report here when I get the answer Smile

                         

                        Ok. Thank you.