Low HR Training

1

Pace influenced by temperature or by time of day? Or??? (Read 493 times)

    In the last few weeks I'm coming back to running, after having been 'out' for a few months: Last summer I have been overdoing (too far too fast?).

     

    I have been reading about Low HR training now, and I'm trying to keep my HR below 127 now (180-age minus 5), and I really like it...

     

    Most of my runs have been in the afternoon, a few hours after lunch, or in the evening, one and half hour after dinner.

    But yesterday, I ran in the morning, before breakfast.

    It has been rather cold here in the last weeks, with temperatures around -5°C (23°F) by day.

    But of course, night temperatures are lower, and during my run yesterday morning it was about -10°C (14°F).

    And yesterday it was rather difficult to slow down to below 130.  During my previous runs my pace was not fast, but at least faster than walking pace, but yesterday I had to slow down to a running pace slower than my walking pace, and even then my HR stayed just above 130 bpm.

     

    I have tried to research this, but nowhere I found there might be a relation between lower temperature and higher HR,  and not a clear relationship between running with an empty stomach and elevated HR.

     

    My resting HR hadn't changed, is 58.

    (My diet consists of  lots of whole grain, vegetables and legumes, some fish and lean meat.)

     

    Other thoughts about that drop in pace?

    Running in Belgium
    Ann

     

     

     

    jimmyb


    port-a-bella-potty

      Hi Ann,

       

      Welcome to the LHRT forum! Cool

      Good post.

       

      Your heart rate is always reflective of where your body is at on a given day or time of day in a particular temperature, humidity, and under whatever other stresses are affecting it.  Some people find they have a higher resting HR in the a.m., while for others it's the reverse. 14°F might be more stressful for your body than 25°--for some it might not be. It is a fact that that below a certain temperature, performance is reduced. It's harder on the body. 

       

      The beauty of the heart rate monitor is that you will never force a pace. The body will determine it for you. If you were to run a marathon in 48°F, then run one in 75°, you could see as much as a 20% difference in pace (considering you went into each with an equal footing so-to-speak). If you forced the 48° pace on the 75° day, you would probably crash very early in the race. You'd essentially be running a 75° 10k pace (perhaps) in a marathon. It's the same with training. The HRM will help you navigate through the changes in seasons, and make sure you aren't training at marathon pace when you should be at an easy pace. 

       

      So, just do your best to stay at 127, even if you have to walk. Walking will not hurt you at all. Eventually, you won't have to at all. There will be days when the body will be slow, and other days when it makes a big jump in progress. Just let your body take you there. It knows!

       

      Again, welcome. Glad you posted--the more who unlurk, the better. Keep us posted on your progress.

      --Jimmy Cool

      Log    PRs


      Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

        +1 what Jimmy said.

         

        I love cooler weather running but also notice a small jump in HR, but not as much as during our hot summers here in Austin, TX when morning temps can be in the 80's and 90's - at 5am!

        bob e v
        2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

        Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

        Break the 1000 mi barrier!

        History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

          OK... so I don't think we're going to include Texas in our US-trip next summer ;-)

           

          (But I do realize that during our trip - visiting some National Parks in the West - we'll encounter temperatures we're not used to here in our 'temperate sea-climate, influenced by the Gulf Stream'... 80° at noon, we only have that during a heath spell, and a period of freezing of two weeks, like this winter, we only have a few times in a century (previous was in 1956....))

           

          Today temperatures have risen, and all the snow is melting rapidly... I enjoyed the crips clear skies of last weeks more than the foggy, dark day we have now...  I guess winter is over now... the crocuses are budding in my flower meadow...

          Running in Belgium
          Ann

           

           

           

            Just today, my husband pointed me to an article in our newspaper, titled 'Is it dangerous to run when it's freezing'

             

            The article mentioned research by Matthew Muller at the State Heart & Vascular Institute in Pennsylvania. Two groups of healthy subjects, one group around 25, the other 55+ had to exercise while breathing cold air.  With laser-Doppler-flowmetry the cardial circulation was measured.  In both groups, the cold slowed down coronary bloodflow, although in the younger group, this didn't cause a O2-deficit.  The article doesn't tell what the cold air did in the older subjects, it suggests that they experienced a O2-deficit, at least, it quotes Muller, who should have said: "Older people seem to adapt less good to cold, and even  light exercise in cold circumstances, can result in the heart getting not enough O2'.

             

            But... the article only mentions 'an article published last fall in the Journal of Applied Physiology.  Yet, in that Journal, I only find an article by M. Muller in the December 2011 issue.  This article only mentions research done on young individuals...

            The newspaper article further quotes Muller, who advises everyone to run indoors while it's freezing....

             

            I'm still wondering what is meant by 'freezing'.  I remember once reading a book (Dutch translation of English original), that stated that people should not run outdoors at temperatures below 0° C (= while it's freezing), but when I looked this up in the original, this American book said not to run outdoors at temperatures below 0°... and this must have been 0° F.

             

            So I'm still wondering what the original quote of M. Muller was: 'to run indoors when it's freezing', or 'to run indoors by temperatures below 0°'?

            Running in Belgium
            Ann

             

             

             


            Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

              Anne - If your trip takes you close to Austin, TX let me know and see if we can get together. Chris is about 3+ hrs north of me in the Dallas, TX area so we might be able to arrange an RA MAF Meetup! Especially if we could get Jimmyb and Ron to take a 12 hr drive from Atlanta! LOL

              bob e v
              2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

              Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

              Break the 1000 mi barrier!

              History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

                Well, we arrive in LA, we visit California, Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, and back to California (We take our flight back home from San Francisco).

                 

                And although I always heard that the difference between a European and an American is, that for an American a city of 500 years old is very, very old, and for a European a city 500 miles away is far, far away, I think that the distance between those states and Austin, Texas can be considered quite long, even for an American.

                (You now, for me, a trip of 200 miles in either direction brings me in a different country....)

                Running in Belgium
                Ann

                 

                 

                 


                Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

                  And although I always heard that the difference between a European and an American is, that for an American a city of 500 years old is very, very old, and for a European a city 500 miles away is far, far away, I think that the distance between those states and Austin, Texas can be considered quite long, even for an American.

                  (You now, for me, a trip of 200 miles in either direction brings me in a different country....)

                   I understand, having worked for an English company and been to Europe many times. Most Americans don't realize that a flight from London to Moscow is only a couple of hours (less than 3 if I recall, and less than 2 to Munich) while its almost 6 hours from LA to Boston and over a single country. I remember talking to co-worker while in a Pub and she was discussing buying her new home and starting some remodeling. It was one of the newest in her area, only 200+ years old! LOL In the US it's very hard to keep folks from tearing down homes that are even close to that age.

                   

                  You'll be covering a lot of ground on your trip - and an area the size of much of Europe too! Beautiful part of the country. DD1 & I drove from LA to Austin, TX stopping in quite a few places in AZ, NV, New Mexico and west Texas, including the Grand Canyon. Enjoy your trip!

                  bob e v
                  2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

                  Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

                  Break the 1000 mi barrier!

                  History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

                  kfmfe04


                    Just out of curiosity, I did a simple linear regression of temperature vs pace from my own training logs.

                    I don't have that many samples yet, as I only started wogging again 2+ weeks ago, but here it goes...

                     

                    If I get slower as temperature increases, I would expect pace to go up (ie get slower) as temperature goes up.

                     

                    graph

                     

                    The linear regression can be turned into a formula.

                    In my case, expected_pace_in_seconds_per_km = 467 + (2.2 * temperature_in_celsius) 

                     

                    This is obviously an approximation and it will be different for everyone (and even different for the same person as he/she gets more efficient).  Not only that, at the low end, if it got freezing, I would expect my pace also to go up (ie get slower), as the OP noted.

                     

                    But the bottom line is, if you can keep good records and collect a lot of samples, it will give you a better idea of the factors (time of day, temperature, dewpoint, water deficit, hours of sleep, etc...) that impact your pace.  Also, the more things you hold constant (eg only running outside on flat trails or trying to run at the same time), the easier it is to find out why you are slowing down.

                     

                    I find that sometimes, the simplest explanation of a slowdown is a lower avg HR (either due to MAF-a_bigger_number or I just didn't exert as much effort that day).  There are ways to detect this, too.  Anyhow, I always try my best to detect any sources of stress right away - so I can properly adjust for the next run.  If it is a stress that I cannot eliminate, I must slow down, cut back on the distance, walk, or even consider taking a rest day (to avoid possible injury).  If there is more unknown noise in your runs or if you can't record all the pertinent factors, then you may have to take averages of several runs to see what is really going on.

                     

                    - Ken

                    Age:42, MAF:138, 168cm/5'6", 62.2kg/137lb (from 73kg/161lb), BF: 14.9%

                    Goals:  MAF10k@56:50, 59kg/130lb (32 days to go)

                    Stage: Trying to get back to MAF Base Building after muscle strain injury

                    My Training Log

                     

                    kfmfe04


                      One another note, strictly speaking, if you would like to burn fat, Maffetone recommends that you do not consume any carbohydrates 4 hours before your run.

                       

                      fwiw, that forces me to either run in the morning (5AM) - I only drink some water before training, or at night, after 5PM and still no snacks or carbs after 1PM.  Of course, in both cases, I drink and eat immediately after the run.

                       

                      - Ken

                      Age:42, MAF:138, 168cm/5'6", 62.2kg/137lb (from 73kg/161lb), BF: 14.9%

                      Goals:  MAF10k@56:50, 59kg/130lb (32 days to go)

                      Stage: Trying to get back to MAF Base Building after muscle strain injury

                      My Training Log