Low HR Training

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My MAF! (Read 851 times)


Prophet!

    This week starts my 11 weeks base period before starting 18-week traditional marathon plan for Honolulu Marathon, my goal race. I've set a pretty lofty goal (for me) of finishing under 4 hours, about 1 hr 7 minutes faster than the last marathon. I've decided to try the MAF method during this period and this week is my first week. I'm 30 years old, been running for about a year. My goal is to be able to run 50 mpw consistently and comfortably My MAF would be 180 - 30 = 150. This week's runs have been between 135 - 140 bpm, allowing up to 145 up the hills. Pace-wise on average comes down to about 9:30 -9:55, slightly slower than my perceived effort easy pace, which is about 9:10 - 9:20. Are these hr ranges ok ? They feel easy but not outrageously easy. I'm hoping that 11 weeks will be enough time to see some sort of progress...i'll drop in some thoughts and training progress here from time to time. Its funny to call it training as so far i've been enjoying all the running a lot more.


    run-easy-race-hard

      If you're running 9:30-9:55/mile well below MAF, you will easily be able to break 4 hours, as long as you put in sufficient training mileage. When you finish a run at that heart rate, do you feel "unsatisfied," as if you hardly did anything and you could keep going forever?


      Prophet!

        If you're running 9:30-9:55/mile well below MAF, you will easily be able to break 4 hours, as long as you put in sufficient training mileage. When you finish a run at that heart rate, do you feel "unsatisfied," as if you hardly did anything and you could keep going forever?
        thanks jesse..that is encouraging...its nice to have you posting here, i've been trying to sort through the mega-thread at coolrunning but just couldn't quite get through all of them Smile . it does feel like i can run forever at that pace. Everything felt comfortable, there are only a few times where i had to slow it down when i start spacing out and for some reason start to speed up. Hopefully my mental pacing will get better by the end of this base period....i should also mention that most of the runs this week has been done at temperatures around ~ 85 degrees since i've had to run at lunch time, with pretty high humidity... usually my runs are early in the morning where temperatures are slightly more dealable in the high 70s low 80s. I probably will need some significant time cushion as Honolulu is not the fastest of marathons given the crowd and the weather.
        RunFree7


        Run like a kid again!

          I agree with Jesse. I think you should be fine as long as you get those long runs in during your training. I'm still trying to figure out the whole heart rate thing though.
            2011 Goals:
            Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
            Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)


          Wasatch Speedgoat

            Yeah, you should be able to do it if you are committed to consistent training. One thing i will note is that Maffetone does allow you to add 5 beats to your time if you've been running regularly (3-4 times a week)...of course 155 would be your high number with a zone of 145-155. It's best to try to stay as close to the lower number at the beginning and end of your run, allowing it to ramp up in the middle. Also take a look at the Van Aaken material I posted yesterday....I find VA very interesting in that he had his top athletes running at or around 130 BPM, lots of walking for recovery, but he also had them do some faster work, which you might want to consider after you feel that you have reached a plateau. Good luck, Steve, you are on a good program that brings running back to being fun again! Big grin Steve
            Life is short, play hard!


            Wasatch Speedgoat

              I agree with Jesse. I think you should be fine as long as you get those long runs in during your training. I'm still trying to figure out the whole heart rate thing though.
              Hey Bearcat..... There's nothing to figure out...it's the simplest form of training you can do! Run well within yourself for 95% of your training...then if you feel the need for speed, keep it at or about your race pace and no faster. It does take time, but also does work. The ease of the pace allows you to run more, which just makes you stronger. I have been following this training system for over 30 years with success..., I'm 55, still running and competing with the younger runners! I really think that's because I have not been "killing" myself every workout...just think big motor (heart), small body. A Porsche engine inside a VW bug.... Steve
              Life is short, play hard!


              Prophet!

                One thing i will note is that Maffetone does allow you to add 5 beats to your time if you've been running regularly (3-4 times a week)...of course 155 would be your high number with a zone of 145-155. It's best to try to stay as close to the lower number at the beginning and end of your run, allowing it to ramp up in the middle.
                I'm wondering if i should run in the 145 - 155 range...around 150 for me things start to feel like i'm pushing it a bit... I never did figure out my max HR just to make sure i don't have anomalously low max HR. i guess maybe i'll do the majority in the 135 - 145 range and then have one day of 145 - 155 range... another question that i have is that is it ok to continue doing strides few times a week ? I typically would do 6 - 8x 20s strides or 60 - 100 m if i'm on the track...


                Wasatch Speedgoat

                  It makes sense to me to listen to your body than to the HR monitor...I'm supposed to run at below 130, but I am usually closer to 140 because that's where I am comfortable and it still feels almost effortless. I would say yes on the strides....they aren't long enough to rise your HR much unless you don't rest enough between them.
                  Life is short, play hard!


                  run-easy-race-hard

                    Whatever adjustments you decide to make, I would recommend that you keep at least 80-90% of your training volume at MAF or below, probably without the 5 beats added. The more time you put in at the lower heart rates, the faster you will get at them. It's nice to be able to run an 8 minute mile at a heart rate about 10 beats below your walking heart rate from 2 years earlier.
                    RunFree7


                    Run like a kid again!

                      I know I make this whole heart rate thing more difficult then it should be. I have a hard time making myself run slower. I have worked so hard to get to 9 minutes miles in the heat - 8 minute miles in cool weather. I am not trying to run hard but with the heat and humidty I think that is really brining up my Heart Rate. Does that make sense? Date..........Mov Time.....Dist.........Spd.........Pace.......Elev...........HR........Temp..........Hum 23May.........0:43.........05.18.........7.2.........8:21......0608.........166.........69.8…….......66.3 25May.........1:14.........08.00.........6.5.........9:16......0646.........157.........59.0............89.9 26May.........1:55.........13.14.........6.8.........8:48......3664.........171.........75.2............57.4 28May.........1:11.........07.99.........6.7.........8:55......0690.........159.........69.1............85.3 29May.........1:14.........08.17.........6.6.........9:05......2493.........155.........85.4............41.8 30May.........0:50.........05.50.........6.6.........9:08......0647.........165.........87.8…..........34.7
                        2011 Goals:
                        Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                        Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)


                      Prophet!

                        Bearcat, most of my runs recently have been in the mid to high 80s with high humidity...some days i manage to run really early in the morning where temperature starts around 77... i certainly feel the effect of the higher temperature making my paces much slower to maintain HR under MAF. So far all my runs have been very enjoyable regardless of pace,heat,humidity as long as i maintain HR under MAF... for me that seems to be the key. If you're planning to stick with this type of training i say don't worry about your pace and just worry about keeping your HR down. I maybe imagining this but not full two weeks after i started this MAF training, i can feel improvements, not necessarily getting faster but just the comfort level and the energy level.
                        RunFree7


                        Run like a kid again!

                          I take it you are a big Heros fan? I just have to get past the mental part.
                            2011 Goals:
                            Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                            Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                          RunFree7


                          Run like a kid again!

                            Steve I have a hard time relating to you and your runs. Anyone that list 40 mile easy trail run that took 12 hours is in a world I don't understand. Big grin
                              2011 Goals:
                              Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                              Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)


                            run-easy-race-hard

                              My response would be the same as SurfNRun's. Over time you will acclimate if you put in enough consistent time at the high temperatures, as long as you hydrate well (weigh yourself before and after your runs if you're wondering whether you're hydrating well).
                              RunFree7


                              Run like a kid again!

                                Well I ran this morning and I just don't get it. Maybe I am not a morning person. I woke up, got dressed, stretched and did a couple of other things - went running. Started out sore and some aches in my feet. Not things that I have been noticing before. My pace was a lot slower (the bad news) but my HR was low (145)(good news). I felt like I gave the same sort of effort I have been though. I'm just surprised my pace was sooo slow. The good news is since it was an easy run I just went with the flow. Date..........Mov Time.....Dist.........Spd.........Pace.......Elev...........HR........Temp..........Hum 23May.........1:19.........08.01........6.1.........9:52......0794.........145.........68.9…….......80.5
                                  2011 Goals:
                                  Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                                  Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
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