Low HR Training

Treadmill test to determine MAF (KPH) (19 tests) (Read 2697 times)


Dad, Runner, Programmer

    Thanks for responding and coming up with this test! It is nice to see it be so close to the MAF as calculated by age. I'll stick with 145 for my training for now.  In a few months, I'll be 35, so that'll make sense Smile

    2014 Goal: Run faster than 3:37:07 in the NYC Marathon (3:37:50 :( but amazing time anyways!)

      I believe I've read before that your LT is also approxiamately your average HR for an hour race.

       

      The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

       

      2014 Goals:

       

      Stay healthy

      Enjoy life

       

        OGUZ Report:   Maf is 123, for sure. Starting from 9.9, to 10.4 kph, 6 consecutive readings of 123. 10.5 kph reading is 122 and 10.6 kph reading rises steeply to 125.123 correlates to my age; I will be 55 yo this summer. Aerobic Threshold plateau is around 138-141 HR, from 11.7 kph to 12.5 kph. 12.6 reading rises steeply to 144.  I stopped the test at 16 kph, HR 165. I am a newbie in treadmill running and felt awkward at this speed. (0 % incline; should adjust to 1-2  %)  LT probably is 165+.   ( Theoretically;  140/0.85=165).

         

         

        what is the difference between MAF and aerobic threshold?


        Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

          Thanks to Dr R for suggesting that I do this test, and to JimmyB for pointing me to the thread. I got lucky when I went to the gym this morning, later than normally because of over sleeping and morning commitments. I got lucky in that the first dreadmill (A Precor with built-in TV screen) I went to had an option button that allowed me to change to metric instead of US measurement.

           

          Let me preference the data insert with my background. Currently 65yo, retired, although I do income taxes for a national co during tax season.  Have been on BP meds since 1992, cholesterol since 1994, heart attack in 2008 (learning now that in addition to family history am being affected by exposure to Agent Orange during my two tours in Nam), started running in July 2008 as way to control BP and Cholesterol levels , LHR training in fall of 2009 with the objective of controlling BP and Cholesterol, which it did. I am on large dosages of a number of medications Blood pressure: Beta Blocker (labetalol, 100mg 2x/day), ACE inhibitors (lisinopril 20mg 2x/day), Calcium Channel blocker (Amlodipine 5mg, 2x/day), renin inhibitor (Tekturna 300mg 1x/day); Heart - Plavix 75mg, 1x/day; cholesterol, Simvastatin 20mg 1x/day, Niaspan ER 500mg 1x/day, low dose aspirin, and because of side effects from Niaspan I take it with a 500mg Ibuprofen tablet, after eating apple sauce and high fiber cracker. So like I said - huge amounts of meds! Once on this regimen my Cardiologist subjected me to repeated stress tests and measured max heart rate at 137.

           

          When I started LHR training I was 93 and set my MAF according to the formula 180-63-10 for meds = 107, after running this way for over a year I thought my MAF might be higher and let it get to 113 occasionally while training. In July 2010 I moved to Austin, TX and began running in a new hilly neighborhood and was having trouble holding MAF levels except going uphill. I also started to feel some over training issues, aches, pains, fatigue but didn't repeat any MAF tests because of neighborhood hills and not knowing where level ground I could run on was. To shorten this post suffice it say I screwed up, injured my calves and rt Achilles, then got buried up my butt after learning about exposure to Agent Orange and felt into a discouraged funk for most of 2011. I feel I have finally snapped out of it and am relooking at my MAF because it felt harder than I thought it should be and could be what is preventing me from being able to run 6-7x/week. I was also concerned that with a measured max hr of 137 it was 78% of max hr which seemed high as opposed to what it might be with a more normal max hr of ~155 or <68%.

           

          The data below seems to show that my MAF is 95 or is it in fact 105/106? I'll bow to this forums wisdom to let me know! LOL

           

           

          bob e v
          2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

          Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

          Break the 1000 mi barrier!

          History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

          jimmyb


            Hi Bob,

             

            Thanks for posting these results. Looks like the MAF is 94-95--I see the classic curve to a plateau then a steep rise all the way up. That puts you 10 beats below your calculation, but maybe that's what happens when you're on that many meds. With a medically induced MHR, perhaps 20 beats below 180-age is not out of the question.

             

            I'm very curious about your MHR of 137. When you run close to it, are you completely out of breath (in oxygen debt) as I am when I am near my my MHR?

             

             

            --Jimmy

            Log    PRs


            Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

              When MHR was measured at 137 I really felt like I was going to puke. They did an echo when I got off the dreadmill and I couldn't stop moving around from trying to catch my breath. I was almost out of breath yesterday when I stopped the dreadmill as soon as hr hit 125, which is about 91% of max. I felt I was getting close. I've finished races with HR peaking at 133 by sprinting and felt like I couldn't catch my breath which kind of confirms the 137. If anything it could be maybe 3-5 beats higher but not much from the way I felt.

               

              The interesting thing is that trying to maintain a MAF of 107 when I started LHR at 63 was not that easy. Took awhile to achieve a 4mi MAF test run - which was a killer workout. Guess this test explains why I felt such a struggle. It also means I've been running at MAF, MAF+5 for most of my runs since moving to Austin. Makes me feel better about how I've been running in my neighborhood - it also means I've been pushing things on the hills, letting HR drift to 113 on occasion, thinking MAF of 107 +5 for conditioning. This test says that conditioning isn't a factor with the meds I am on.

               

              Will attempt dreadmill maf test using 95 in the very near future so I have a baseline. I know the pace is 15 that gets me there during warmup, will have to see how steady it stays if it does. Might also get to a hs track on a weekend for one.

               

              thanks for confirming my reading!

              bob e v
              2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

              Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

              Break the 1000 mi barrier!

              History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

              jimmyb


                When MHR was measured at 137 I really felt like I was going to puke. They did an echo when I got off the dreadmill and I couldn't stop moving around from trying to catch my breath. I was almost out of breath yesterday when I stopped the dreadmill as soon as hr hit 125, which is about 91% of max. I felt I was getting close. I've finished races with HR peaking at 133 by sprinting and felt like I couldn't catch my breath which kind of confirms the 137. If anything it could be maybe 3-5 beats higher but not much from the way I felt.

                 

                The interesting thing is that trying to maintain a MAF of 107 when I started LHR at 63 was not that easy. Took awhile to achieve a 4mi MAF test run - which was a killer workout. Guess this test explains why I felt such a struggle. It also means I've been running at MAF, MAF+5 for most of my runs since moving to Austin. Makes me feel better about how I've been running in my neighborhood - it also means I've been pushing things on the hills, letting HR drift to 113 on occasion, thinking MAF of 107 +5 for conditioning. This test says that conditioning isn't a factor with the meds I am on.

                 

                Will attempt dreadmill maf test using 95 in the very near future so I have a baseline. I know the pace is 15 that gets me there during warmup, will have to see how steady it stays if it does. Might also get to a hs track on a weekend for one.

                 

                thanks for confirming my reading!

                 

                 

                Well, based on your answer to my question,  that deflection point is most likely your MAF.

                Your MAF tests will tell the tale.

                Good luck, Bob. I hope 2012 is full of great running fun for you!Cool

                --Jimmy

                Log    PRs


                Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

                  Well it certainly is starting better than 2011 did. I spent a good time of 2011 in a discouraged funk. Not feeling that way now. Had a good Turkey Trot, got over the agent orange bullshit (mostly), and now understand what might have been causing annoying minor injuries - running to fast for this broken down old body when thinking I was running "slow" enough. Have a couple of irritating non-running induced things I am working thru but don't expect they'll cause a significant problem going forward.

                   

                  I never knew I could run a test to determine MAF - wonder if this should be made a sticky - or did I miss it in the documentation?

                  bob e v
                  2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

                  Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

                  Break the 1000 mi barrier!

                  History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

                  jimmyb


                    Well it certainly is starting better than 2011 did. I spent a good time of 2011 in a discouraged funk. Not feeling that way now. Had a good Turkey Trot, got over the agent orange bullshit (mostly), and now understand what might have been causing annoying minor injuries - running to fast for this broken down old body when thinking I was running "slow" enough. Have a couple of irritating non-running induced things I am working thru but don't expect they'll cause a significant problem going forward.

                     

                    I never knew I could run a test to determine MAF - wonder if this should be made a sticky - or did I miss it in the documentation?

                     

                    I'm glad the year is starting better for you, Bob.

                     

                    My thinking on this test was that it would be an RQ test without the gas analyzer part. When you do an RQ test it measures your heart rate, and I figured as long as the speed increase part and sampling rate is similar, then the heart rate graph should come out the same. You'll see your deflection point.

                     

                    In the future, there is no need for you to go all the way to MHR, or even close. 15-20 beats over your current MAF should do the trick and reveal your deflection point.

                     

                    Keep going, Bob!

                     

                    --Jimmy

                    Log    PRs

                      When you run close to it, are you completely out of breath (in oxygen debt) as I am when I am near my my MHR?

                       

                       

                       

                      Ah, I still haven't got this one done. I need someone to help me to make this test practical and my friend who we'd do these sport things together has been away since last summer (work stuff). I might ask some family member one day.

                       

                      Anyway, I just wanted to mention that I never feel completely out of breath even at my MHR. I've had a lactate threshold test done recently and not there either. The guy also commented on how little I was breathing. Just interesting little tidbit.

                      jimmyb


                        Ah, I still haven't got this one done. I need someone to help me to make this test practical and my friend who we'd do these sport things together has been away since last summer (work stuff). I might ask some family member one day.

                         

                        Anyway, I just wanted to mention that I never feel completely out of breath even at my MHR. I've had a lactate threshold test done recently and not there either. The guy also commented on how little I was breathing. Just interesting little tidbit.

                         

                        I do mine on mu own. It's takes a little focus, but doable.

                        Plan to do one in a few months or so.

                         

                        --JimmyCool

                        Log    PRs

                          I do mine on mu own. It's takes a little focus, but doable.

                          Plan to do one in a few months or so.

                           

                          --JimmyCool

                           

                          I don't really want to do it on my own, my HR jumps too easily at the smallest movements etc... so I want someone else to control both the treadmill and the watch, I will just focus on the running itself.


                          Chasing the bus

                            Ok, finally ran this test. There are several deflection points, but if I had to guess, I'd say MAF is right about 131-133, where it should be. The slight secondary at 137 is confusing, though. As to LT, no idea. I only ran it to HR 181, and could have gone higher, but figured that was all I'd need...MAF+50. It's well above my calculated max...no idea what that means either. I've also been slacking so much this is more of a taper result, if that's significant.

                            “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
                            Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

                            jimmyb


                              Ok, finally ran this test. There are several deflection points, but if I had to guess, I'd say MAF is right about 131-133, where it should be. The slight secondary at 137 is confusing, though. As to LT, no idea. I only ran it to HR 181, and could have gone higher, but figured that was all I'd need...MAF+50. It's well above my calculated max...no idea what that means either. I've also been slacking so much this is more of a taper result, if that's significant.

                               

                              Thanks for posting, John. You have the classic plateau at MAF, then the steady steep rise afterwards.  That small plateau at 137 had only two readings and isn't a really defined deflection. I usually see another plateau somewhere in the mid to high 140's for some reason. It just so happens to coincide with about 50% fat/50% sugar for me in an RQ test. Could be another part of the anaerobic fiber set kicking in.

                               

                              Confirming LT is a bit dodgy this way. It works for some and not others (research Conconi LT test). You do have a decent plateau at about 175-176 near the end of your test. When I was tested, my LT was 176 bpm (about 88% mHR). I haven't  seen a defined deflection at LT yet in any test I've done, even in the RQ gas test, but always get one at my MAF.

                               

                              Is it okay with you that I link to your graph and post your report in the first post of this thread? (you're a new test subject!).

                               

                              Thanks for this. Awesome.

                               

                              --JimmyCool

                              Log    PRs


                              Chasing the bus

                                 ...Is it okay with you that I link to your graph and post your report in the first post of this thread? (you're a new test subject!).

                                 

                                Thanks for this. Awesome.

                                 

                                --JimmyCool

                                 

                                Yep. no prob.!

                                “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
                                Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test