Low HR Training

1

Training Plan Help (Read 514 times)


The Crap Whisperer

    I've been lurking for a while but need some help with a training plan for a half in May and was hoping to get some input. I have been running for almost 3 years and have had injury issues off and on. I decided to slow way down and follow Maff as best I could. I've been running at or below hr 147 since August. I have lost some weight and have had less injury issues but I'm sooooo slow. I don't mind running slow at all but the prospect of a 3+ hour half isn't very exciting. I'm trying to figure out how this slow training will relate to my ability in a half. Right now I am looking at holding my long run to 8 miles (takes me 2 hrs) and add a mid week run of 5 miles. All other days would be 3 mile runs. I was thinking I could run a couple miles of the longer runs a little faster? Perhaps one day a week should be a rest day with some walking. Any feedback would be helpful Smile thanks!

    Being the best tiny spec that I can be!

      I am interested in the responses from the more experienced runners here.  I wonder the same thing.  After 4-6 months of LHR running and areobic conditioning, will I actually run faster. 

       

      You said you lost weight and have had no injuries.  That would be enough for me.

      ___________

      Chris


      Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

        Somewhere in this forum Jimmyb has discussed adding anerobic training per Dr Maffetone's training method after building solid aerobic base. I haven't tried anerobic training since starting to MAF and might not since I just enjoy running, although yesterday's 3:12 half is annoying its most likely due to lack of good long time on feet runs during lead up.

        bob e v
        2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

        Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

        Break the 1000 mi barrier!

        History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

        jimmyb


          The Maffetone Method has some loose connections with Lydiard training, in terms of periodization. Dr. Phil recommends a base period, followed by some anaerobic sharpening, then get to racing. Always doing regular monthly MAF tests---and adjusting training according to what your aerobic speed is doing.

           

          Base period---what you're looking for is progress in aerobic speed and volume. Eventually you will plateau a bit, and it might be time for anaerobic work. Or, as some do, you might get to a certain aerobic speed you normally get to, and then you get to some anaerobic work and or racing. If you are regressing or not improving at all during the base period, then adjustments have to made somewhere in your training. It could be a cut in volume, more warm-up, more volume, or maybe something as simple as more rest.

           

          Anaerobic---Based on his experience, he recommends not exceeding 90%MHR during anaerobic training. Mainly, because he saw that his athletes got the same benefit at 90% as they did doing gut-busting intervals at 95% and higher. Dr. Phil's all about not overdoing it. What should happen when you introduce anaerobic work (tempos, fartlek, 90% intervals) is your MAF tests should improve. If they don't, and your aerobic speed regresses, you aren't ready for it, or you are doing too much.

           

          Racing--get to the business of racing. You should also see improvement in aerobic speed, but there will come a point where regression will set in---depending on how much racing you do and how hard. 

           

          That's the basic idea. Now, you individualize, of course. You have freedom to do whatever you want. The key is to always do your MAF tests and keep in touch with how your aerobic system is responding to what you are doing. And of course, you can never ignore how your body is feeling. 

           

          Erica, I looked at your running log, and I know those paces--I have been there. It looks to me like you never take a day off. I'm not sure why not, but I do recommend taking 1 day off a week at least. Perhaps, the day after your long run. Recovery and rest is really important. 

           

          Looks like you are up to 2:17 in duration as a peak so far, and it  does look like your paces are improving. I don't see any MAF tests. Are you using a specific run to monitor aerobic speed?

           

          I think it's good idea to limit your duration in your long run to 2 hours, and instead of doing all short runs the rest of the time, try a medium long midweek. On recovery runs, I recommend MAF combined with heart time (warmup 20 minutes to MAF -10, then hold that speed as best as you can. As soon as you can no longer hold MAF-5 without slowing, stop the run).

           

          Sample schedule (use at own risk):

           

          1--Long run 2:00 @ MAF

          2--off, rest

          3--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF)  or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

          4--medium long run  60-90 minutes (build to 90) @ MAF

          5--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF) or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

          6-- 60 minutes @ MAF

          7--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF) or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

           

          Something like that. Cut back a little every 4th week. If you are ever tired, bag the run and rest.

           

          When late march, APril comes around, you might consider some anaerobic work to get you balanced for  racing the half marathon.

           

          Good luck!

           

          --Jimmy Cool

          Log    PRs

            Sound advice from the LHR Grand Pubba.

             

            My MAF paces used to be in the 13-14 minute range and I had to do a lot of walking to keep my HR down. It takes time, lots of it, but it will get better and you will get faster at MAF AND race speeds.

             

            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

             

            2014 Goals:

             

            Stay healthy

            Enjoy life

             

              The Maffetone Method has some loose connections with Lydiard training, in terms of periodization. Dr. Phil recommends a base period, followed by some anaerobic sharpening, then get to racing. Always doing regular monthly MAF tests---and adjusting training according to what your aerobic speed is doing.

               

              Base period---what you're looking for is progress in aerobic speed and volume. Eventually you will plateau a bit, and it might be time for anaerobic work. Or, as some do, you might get to a certain aerobic speed you normally get to, and then you get to some anaerobic work and or racing. If you are regressing or not improving at all during the base period, then adjustments have to made somewhere in your training. It could be a cut in volume, more warm-up, more volume, or maybe something as simple as more rest.

               

              Anaerobic---Based on his experience, he recommends not exceeding 90%MHR during anaerobic training. Mainly, because he saw that his athletes got the same benefit at 90% as they did doing gut-busting intervals at 95% and higher. Dr. Phil's all about not overdoing it. What should happen when you introduce anaerobic work (tempos, fartlek, 90% intervals) is your MAF tests should improve. If they don't, and your aerobic speed regresses, you aren't ready for it, or you are doing too much.

               

              Racing--get to the business of racing. You should also see improvement in aerobic speed, but there will come a point where regression will set in---depending on how much racing you do and how hard. 

               

              That's the basic idea. Now, you individualize, of course. You have freedom to do whatever you want. The key is to always do your MAF tests and keep in touch with how your aerobic system is responding to what you are doing. And of course, you can never ignore how your body is feeling. 

               

              Erica, I looked at your running log, and I know those paces--I have been there. It looks to me like you never take a day off. I'm not sure why not, but I do recommend taking 1 day off a week at least. Perhaps, the day after your long run. Recovery and rest is really important. 

               

              Looks like you are up to 2:17 in duration as a peak so far, and it  does look like your paces are improving. I don't see any MAF tests. Are you using a specific run to monitor aerobic speed?

               

              I think it's good idea to limit your duration in your long run to 2 hours, and instead of doing all short runs the rest of the time, try a medium long midweek. On recovery runs, I recommend MAF combined with heart time (warmup 20 minutes to MAF -10, then hold that speed as best as you can. As soon as you can no longer hold MAF-5 without slowing, stop the run).

               

              Sample schedule (use at own risk):

               

              1--Long run 2:00 @ MAF

              2--off, rest

              3--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF)  or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

              4--medium long run  60-90 minutes (build to 90) @ MAF

              5--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF) or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

              6-- 60 minutes @ MAF

              7--recovery run HT zone MAF -10 to MAF -5 (or MAF-5 to MAF) or 45-60 minutes MAF-10 to MAF

               

              Something like that. Cut back a little every 4th week. If you are ever tired, bag the run and rest.

               

              When late march, APril comes around, you might consider some anaerobic work to get you balanced for  racing the half marathon.

               

              Good luck!

               

              --Jimmy Cool

               

               

              This was a great post. Thanks!

               

              I currently live in Japan and plan on returning to the States for a year next May (2013), so I want to dedicate a solid year to this base training. Is that too long? From the impression I've received from Dr. Phil, there is no "too much" base training, but I want to make sure I'm right on that. I'm really enjoying my runs now and my milage has shot up because it's so low impact. 

               

              My latest MAF test was:

              Mile 1: 12:28.39        Avg HR: 147

              Mile 2: 12:59.30        Avg HR: 147

              Mile 3: 12:55.85        Avg HR: 147

               

              My Max Aerobic Rate is 149 based on my age (31), but I found recently that I feel much better around 144-147. I've never thought of lowering it more than that. 

              jimmyb


                This was a great post. Thanks!

                 

                I currently live in Japan and plan on returning to the States for a year next May (2013), so I want to dedicate a solid year to this base training. Is that too long? From the impression I've received from Dr. Phil, there is no "too much" base training, but I want to make sure I'm right on that. I'm really enjoying my runs now and my milage has shot up because it's so low impact. 

                 

                My latest MAF test was:

                Mile 1: 12:28.39        Avg HR: 147

                Mile 2: 12:59.30        Avg HR: 147

                Mile 3: 12:55.85        Avg HR: 147

                 

                My Max Aerobic Rate is 149 based on my age (31), but I found recently that I feel much better around 144-147. I've never thought of lowering it more than that. 

                 

                A solid year won't hurt--again, just make sure you do MAF tests. If at some point you hit a prolonged plateau, something might need to change, but that might not happen at all, and you might see a continuous improvement. Good luck!

                --Jimmy Cool

                Log    PRs


                Consistently Slow

                  I've been lurking for a while but need some help with a training plan for a half in May and was hoping to get some input. I have been running for almost 3 years and have had injury issues off and on. I decided to slow way down and follow Maff as best I could. I've been running at or below hr 147 since August. I have lost some weight and have had less injury issues but I'm sooooo slow. I don't mind running slow at all but the prospect of a 3+ hour half isn't very exciting. I'm trying to figure out how this slow training will relate to my ability in a half. Right now I am looking at holding my long run to 8 miles (takes me 2 hrs) and add a mid week run of 5 miles. All other days would be 3 mile runs. I was thinking I could run a couple miles of the longer runs a little faster? Perhaps one day a week should be a rest day with some walking. Any feedback would be helpful Smile thanks!

                   

                  http://www.runningahead.com/logs/c19c0ddedf4745e5917badc1f7d68548/plans/4dada81db0624ec3b9c8d1319d6f11bb

                  Run until the trail runs out.

                  2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                  50miler 13:26:18

                  Race Less Train More

                   

                  Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                  "The Marble in The Groove"

                   

                  unsolicited chatter

                  http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                  Consistently Slow

                    Dirtygrace You need to train at maff but not race at maff. Go to team Oregon pace wizard. It will give you a HR pace for the race.

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                    2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                    50miler 13:26:18

                    Race Less Train More

                     

                    Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                    "The Marble in The Groove"

                     

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                    The Crap Whisperer

                      Thank you for taking the time to look at my log and offer your opinion. I have been doing a Maf test monthly by running the same route and I saw very gradual improvement until this last month and I'm really feeling like I'm not going anywhere. I think adding some mid-week miles and keeping the long run to 2 hours might help. I don't have any specific reason for running daily other than I am trying to lose weight and I like the consistency - but that doesn't mean I can't take a walk on a "rest" day. I guess I started running daily so I could get the miles up but I think I can safely do that now by shifting the miles to longer than 3 mile runs during the week.

                       

                      Runnerclay - thanks for the link. I will check that out. My issue right now is a lack of confidence in being able to hold a faster pace during a race since I haven't really practiced with anything over Maf.

                       

                      Thanks again. I will digest and try to find a plan Smile

                      Being the best tiny spec that I can be!

                         I don't have any specific reason for running daily other than I am trying to lose weight and I like the consistency -

                         

                        Have you tried the 2-week no carbs/no sugar test?  For me changing my eating habits helped as much as daily running.

                        ___________

                        Chris

                        jimmyb


                          Thank you for taking the time to look at my log and offer your opinion. I have been doing a Maf test monthly by running the same route and I saw very gradual improvement until this last month and I'm really feeling like I'm not going anywhere. I think adding some mid-week miles and keeping the long run to 2 hours might help. I don't have any specific reason for running daily other than I am trying to lose weight and I like the consistency - but that doesn't mean I can't take a walk on a "rest" day. I guess I started running daily so I could get the miles up but I think I can safely do that now by shifting the miles to longer than 3 mile runs during the week.

                           

                          Runnerclay - thanks for the link. I will check that out. My issue right now is a lack of confidence in being able to hold a faster pace during a race since I haven't really practiced with anything over Maf.

                           

                          Thanks again. I will digest and try to find a plan Smile

                           

                          if you've seen healing from your injuries--that is also progress--and part of the program. A day off from any exercise works wonders--you won't lose any fitness. You won't gain weight. Overtraining can actually cause your body to store more fat. Good luck!

                          --jimmy

                          Log    PRs