Low HR Training

"Race Report & Upcoming Races" Thread (Read 7710 times)


run-easy-race-hard

    Actually no race regrets from my perspective, nor am I bothered by another DNF. There will be many more and I'm just fine with that. I've run much longer with much steeper and drawn-out climbs and descents without the slightest issue with quads. However, there were a few factors here: first, I had only trained for about 5 solid weeks after several weeks of almost complete down time (I think that was actually the clincher), next, I thought the course was supposed to be flat so I focused on the flattest training regimen possible, and last, while the course was not overly technical, there was an overabundance of roots, which probably made my running a bit tentative for long stretches. Factor 1 alone was probably sufficient, however. Had I actually eaten as I should have at mile 80, I would not likely have hit such a low when I was already having the leg problems. C'est la vis!
    Pammie


      Great idea for a thread My key race is the London Marathon on April 13th getting quite close now. As there is no real realationship between my PRs decided to LHR train to try and rectify this Rather than follow a structured marathon plan i've just ran easy build up my miles (doing it Hadd-style) I also do a 5km once a month, more a social thing we meet and have something to eat after its on the last friday of the month so the next one is Feb 29th
      hr145


        I've done the DNF before so don't sweat it. It's OK. If I may point out one thing from your report, it would be this: focus more on race nutrition. I noticed you consumed alot of junk during the race. During any long distance race your body needs the best nutrition. That's one item I've noticed from many MAFer's on this site. The nutrition just isn't happening. On the long runs and races you need quality products to fuel your body. May I suggest Hammer Nutrition? No, I don't collect a pay-check from them but I do use their products in training and racing and they make a radical difference. MAF will get you the training you need and Hammer will provide the nutrition. One more thought, you can consume the Hammer stuff and still have a bad race. That's another subject called overtraining and lack of tapering. runhard


        run-easy-race-hard

          I've done the DNF before so don't sweat it. It's OK. If I may point out one thing from your report, it would be this: focus more on race nutrition. I noticed you consumed alot of junk during the race. During any long distance race your body needs the best nutrition. That's one item I've noticed from many MAFer's on this site. The nutrition just isn't happening. On the long runs and races you need quality products to fuel your body. May I suggest Hammer Nutrition? No, I don't collect a pay-check from them but I do use their products in training and racing and they make a radical difference. MAF will get you the training you need and Hammer will provide the nutrition. One more thought, you can consume the Hammer stuff and still have a bad race. That's another subject called overtraining and lack of tapering. runhard
          nah, I ran Umstead in less than 19 hours and I had plenty left at the end, following the same nutrition protocol. Umstead is a hillier course and it was much hotter. I've run my 40 marathons and ultras on basically the same protocols and 90% of the time, I'm strong throughout the race. One thing is consistent however - when my training is lax or insufficient, that's where I pay the biggest price. For a relatively slow guy, I will generally beat out those in longer races who are much faster than I am (i.e., can blow me away in 5k, 10k races and so forth). With all that said, I did interchange between Heed (which is a Hammer product, but I'm not a big fan of) and Gatorade Endurance, which were the two sports drinks provided. On the nutrition side, I did make a major faux pas which I mentioned and that was not eating at mile 80. That's what basically sealed the race for me. I knew better but it was probably a subconscious thing for me, knowing that I would fizzle out and have a good excuse to end the race! So, my feelings on nutrition: you'd better keep taking it in in an ultra. Fats, carbs, proteins, electrolytes (better be some salt in there, not just a bunch of potassium.) Do you have to get fancy? Only if you train to be fancy. Do you need it in a marathon? Only if you train to need it in a marathon. Then again, there's what I call the universal rule for ultras: what works perfectly for one person is the worst thing in the world for the next person.
            FF- Sorry to hear you had a rough go of it, but it was a very interesting race report to read. I think I would have quit after the first mud-caused face plant.
              Today I ran The Texas Half for the second year in a row. The race was held at White Rock Lake which is relatively flat. 1:47:12 is the time I ran this race last year. It was my first half marathon. 8:11/mile 1:44:14 was my PR which was set in May 07 in my third half marathon. 8:00/mile 1:39:39 is my new PR set today, my forth half marathon. 7:37/mile I found the original low heart rate thread in July 2006 and I've been training below MAF ever since. I don't do any speed work outside of races. I try to average one or two races a month. I use my heart rate to pace my training runs and my race pace. With thoughts of last weeks 10k I repeatedly reminded myself to start conservatively. I was able to stay below 145 for the first mile and I was just starting to maintain low 150's during the last part of the second mile. At mile 5 I felt good so I decided to start pushing things a little. Just before the water stop around mile 8 I took a gel. I've never taken gels during a race, in fact I usually just take water throughout with no problem. But I might run the Cowtown Marathon and I wanted to know if what worked in training would also work with running at a higher heart rate. No problems. At mile 10 I still felt good so I started pushing again. During mile 11 I passed the 11 year old that finished just a couple of minutes behind me. It was no easy pass; he looked like he was cruising. Miles 12 and 13 I was trying to get under 7:00/mile but just couldn't maintain it. Remember that little bit about running by heart rate, well in the last couple miles I just see how hard I can push and if I can hold it till the end. During the last .25 or so I was finally able to speed up, funny how people clapping and cheering you on can do that to you. Last year my time would have only been good enough for tenth place in my age group. This year it was good enough for third. Overall I finished 39 out of 509. I was pleasantly surprised. I'm still waiting to see the weather forecast before signing up for the Cowtown Marathon in Ft. Worth. If I do run it the only goal will be to finish better then I finished my first (San Antonio 11/07). I call my first marathon a nutritional failure. Naturally I have a strong desire to "correct" that. Edited to add: Interval info, including heart rates are in my log.
                Today I ran The Texas Half for the second year in a row. The race was held at White Rock Lake which is relatively flat. 1:47:12 is the time I ran this race last year. It was my first half marathon. 8:11/mile 1:44:14 was my PR which was set in May 07 in my third half marathon. 8:00/mile 1:39:39 is my new PR set today, my forth half marathon. 7:37/mile I found the original low heart rate thread in July 2006 and I've been training below MAF ever since. I don't do any speed work outside of races. I try to average one or two races a month. I use my heart rate to pace my training runs and my race pace. With thoughts of last weeks 10k I repeatedly reminded myself to start conservatively. I was able to stay below 145 for the first mile and I was just starting to maintain low 150's during the last part of the second mile. At mile 5 I felt good so I decided to start pushing things a little. Just before the water stop around mile 8 I took a gel. I've never taken gels during a race, in fact I usually just take water throughout with no problem. But I might run the Cowtown Marathon and I wanted to know if what worked in training would also work with running at a higher heart rate. No problems. At mile 10 I still felt good so I started pushing again. During mile 11 I passed the 11 year old that finished just a couple of minutes behind me. It was no easy pass; he looked like he was cruising. Miles 12 and 13 I was trying to get under 7:00/mile but just couldn't maintain it. Remember that little bit about running by heart rate, well in the last couple miles I just see how hard I can push and if I can hold it till the end. During the last .25 or so I was finally able to speed up, funny how people clapping and cheering you on can do that to you. Last year my time would have only been good enough for tenth place in my age group. This year it was good enough for third. Overall I finished 39 out of 509. I was pleasantly surprised. I'm still waiting to see the weather forecast before signing up for the Cowtown Marathon in Ft. Worth. If I do run it the only goal will be to finish better then I finished my first (San Antonio 11/07). I call my first marathon a nutritional failure. Naturally I have a strong desire to "correct" that.
                Wow, congratulations on the huge PR!! Well done!
                Shiksa


                Aerobigal! (thx Jimmy!)

                  WTG Streetch! congrats on a job well done.
                  Stacy
                  I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://stacyruns.wordpress.com/


                  run-easy-race-hard

                    Great job, streeetch - glad to see the dividends are coming in!
                      Thank you FF and Docster, not only for the compliments but also for all the information you've shared here and back at cr. Shiksa: Thank you as well. I took a peak in your log and read your 11/11/07 First Annual Way To Go Mom 1/2 Marathon notes. The day I was falling apart in San Antonio you were crying in the rain. I liked your race report a lot better then mine.
                      Shiksa


                      Aerobigal! (thx Jimmy!)

                        Shiksa: Thank you as well. I took a peak in your log and read your 11/11/07 First Annual Way To Go Mom 1/2 Marathon notes. The day I was falling apart in San Antonio you were crying in the rain. I liked your race report a lot better then mine.
                        I forgot I put that all in there. That was a good day. It was a tough day, but a good day. Smile I'm planning on running a "real" 1/2 in November of this year. The baby was too little this past November so I had to make my own. My guess is that this year's won't be quite so dramatic. Big grin Reaching a goal just feels so wonderful doesn't it? Sorry about San Antonio. I was going to peek at your log, but couldn't view that date for some reason. Clearly, that experience taught you something, and you moved on in a big way. Congrats again!
                        Stacy
                        I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://stacyruns.wordpress.com/
                          I forgot I put that all in there. That was a good day. It was a tough day, but a good day. Smile I'm planning on running a "real" 1/2 in November of this year. The baby was too little this past November so I had to make my own. My guess is that this year's won't be quite so dramatic. Big grin Reaching a goal just feels so wonderful doesn't it? Sorry about San Antonio. I was going to peek at your log, but couldn't view that date for some reason. Clearly, that experience taught you something, and you moved on in a big way. Congrats again!
                          I kept a paper log last year but when I joined here the log was too nice to pass up. I only backfilled it into Dec. I thought about going further with it but just haven't been motivated enough to do it yet.
                            Well, I've bragged all over the RA threads about my first BQ marathon--now I will come "home". A little background: I'm 64. Been running nearly 32 yrs. Over 65,500 miles. 17 marathons (PR 3:16 in 1985) 10 + ultras( PR 50 miler--8:12 in '83 --I think)). Never qualified for Boston. The standards back in 80's were tougher. I startled following Jesse's post on old CR. I was amazed at what he had accomplished in a relatively short time--# of quality marathons and ultras on mostly LHR stuff. I have coached 100's of runners and was fortunate enough to coach the All Army Marathon Team back in the early 80's. I had always trained "slow" 2 -3 minutes slower than 5-10 K race pace. (Old Pr's 5K--17:46/10 K--36:30 ish--both back in 1985--after 9 yrs of pretty consistent running). As Jesse has mentioned--a la Maffetone/Allen and others the formula hasn't been tested enough on old farts:60 + folks. So, with Jesse's help I settled on MAF of 132--my max is around 200. Was 207 in my prime. Sorry Jesse, he doesn't like the MAX HR mentioned in MAF stuff. Anyways, I spent May-Sept of '07 Doing only MAF. Over 1,200 miles. MAF got me back running 6 days a week--after 5 yrs or so of running 5x per week. Built mileage from 40-45 per week to 55-60 per week. Felt better than i had in years. Talk about slow--add FL heat and hummidity--I ran around 12 min + miles. Over time it came down. I never did any MAF tests. I knew it was working. If it wasn't, I was thrilled to be running more miles than I had in over 20+ yrs. ('07 total 2,386--most since 1984!!--and this at age 64 kids.) Goal was Huntsville Marathon in Dec/07. Results DNF. Never felt right from mile 2. Should have quit--ran on pace--sub 4 to mile 15 or so--slowed up and dropped out at mile 17. First DNF in a marathon. Had nothing to do with MAF. I don't recall ever feeling that way in any of my over 400+ races. Went back to the drawing board --with the help of Adam Harmer --my first coach. Neat to have a coach. I have always been the coach. New goal: Tallahassee Marathon:2/3/08. Trained well--tapered well. Ran a 3:57:47!! ( Age Graded:3:06)!! That was faster than my first marathon back in 1977 (3:58:00). Ran smart. Negative splits. Was great till mile 24 or so. Slowed to 9:15's the last cople of miles. Never hit the wall. Minimal GU--maybe 1 at 8-9 mile mark and 1/2 one at mile 18 or so. Never felt like I really needed it. LHR stuff got me pretty efficient at fat burning--I guess. Avg HR 171. HR crept up into the mid 180's the last mile or so--did not push towards the end because I knew I had my sub 4. Geez, I can rattle on. Not due to age. My wife of over 4 decades has always told me I am waaay too wordy. Have recovered great. New goal: Tallahassee 50 miler in December--haven't run an ultra since 1993 (8:59--age 50 on the TLH ultra--flat/fast road course). If all goes well I want to run a 100K in March--'09 in Jacksonville, FL. The sickness continues. Thanks for letting me unload. I am a believer in MAF trainning. I am going to do about 4 months--I am going to up my MAF to 138 or so. Can't get too locked to formulas. The old 220- age(64) would have me at a 156 max. Good luck with that. Keep running. Nick
                              . Geez, I can rattle on. Not due to age. My wife of over 4 decades has always told me I am waaay too wordy. Have recovered great. New goal: Tallahassee 50 miler in December--haven't run an ultra since 1993 (8:59--age 50 on the TLH ultra--flat/fast road course). If all goes well I want to run a 100K in March--'09 in Jacksonville, FL. The sickness continues. Thanks for letting me unload. I am a believer in MAF trainning. I am going to do about 4 months--I am going to up my MAF to 138 or so. Can't get too locked to formulas. The old 220- age(64) would have me at a 156 max. Good luck with that. Keep running. Nick
                              Thanks for unloading & rattling on. Great job again and thanks for sharing the details. Good luck w/ ultra training.
                              DaMacca


                                I've done the DNF before so don't sweat it. It's OK. If I may point out one thing from your report, it would be this: focus more on race nutrition. I noticed you consumed alot of junk during the race. During any long distance race your body needs the best nutrition. That's one item I've noticed from many MAFer's on this site. The nutrition just isn't happening. On the long runs and races you need quality products to fuel your body. May I suggest Hammer Nutrition? No, I don't collect a pay-check from them but I do use their products in training and racing and they make a radical difference. MAF will get you the training you need and Hammer will provide the nutrition. One more thought, you can consume the Hammer stuff and still have a bad race. That's another subject called overtraining and lack of tapering. runhard
                                Is that the same Hammer nutrition company that had samples of their product tested and found to have steroid contaminants (norandrostenedione)? A certain Aussie female pro Ironman triathlete who was banned for 2 years for testing postive for steroid use. She is now fighting to clear her name in court. http://www.xtri.com/features_display.aspx?riIDReport=4487&CAT=21&xref=xx I will stick with Endura to be on the safe side. The rehydration formula contains higher than average quantities of electrolytes, which is really important in the tropics where I train & race.