Nicely done. Is that a PR?
It was. Previous PR was set last year on the same course (although it was a bit warmer) at 43:10. So in a year of LHR training and some Lydiard applications I managed to shave 2:48. I believe I had that extra 23 seconds but just didn't push through mile 3 and 4. Live and learn.
Indy Mini training series 10k this morning. 40:22. Lost time in mile 3&4 but got my mojo back on 5 and 6. HR was maxing out at 167. Felt like I had more to give. Learning how to race is tough but fun. Looks like the running by time is starting to pay some dividends.
Congrats on the PR, Norm! 43 down to 40 is a nice leap.
Keep going!
--Jimmy
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Running the St Patty's Day 8k tomorrow. Fast, flat race, but it might be pouring rain. Mayor Fenty has had my number, but I'm hopeful that recent scandals have impacted his training. My wife's purchase of Cadbury eggs also threatens to do me in, however.
I ran 31:55 last year, but I don't think I've run a step under 7 minute pace in 4 months, so I have no clue what shape I'm in.
Decker Challenge 12/12
Congrats on the PR Norm - sorry I missed your post, but better late than never!
Good luck tomorrow gregw! My next race is the end of Mar, a 10k. Hope I finish in 80 +/-.
bob e v 2012 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?
Finish 2 halves, 3M Half 1/29 and probably Decker Challenge in Dechistory: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008, 62nd birthday; 1st 10k 2/28/2009 - 50 wks from heart attack to 10k; 1st Half Marathon 11/9/09 20 months from heart attack! !
Running the St Patty's Day 8k tomorrow. Fast, flat race, but it might be pouring rain. Mayor Fenty has had my number, but I'm hopeful that recent scandals have impacted his training. My wife's purchase of Cadbury eggs also threatens to do me in, however. I ran 31:55 last year, but I don't think I've run a step under 7 minute pace in 4 months, so I have no clue what shape I'm in.
Ran 32:07 for 8k, splitting 20:03 at 5k, so I beat the MAF predictor by quite a bit. Of course the MAF test was at 62 deg and the weather was perfect today (expect a bit of wind). The rain thankfully stopped hours before the race.
Nice race, Greg. Can you elaborate on what you mean about "beating the MAF predictor"?
Thanks.
Thanks, Greg. I think Dr. Phil wrote somewhere in one of his books that if your 5k times are faster than what is indicated on that chart, that the aerobic system needs more work. There's an imbalance. The chart doesn't work like the McMillan calculator. I think what he meant is that when your energy systems are in balance the MAF test time on the chart should be matching the corresponding 5k time. If your 5k time is 20:00, your MAF tests should be 8:00. The Team oregon pace wizard calculator can be used in this way. If you are capable of 20:00 5k, 3:20ish marathon should be doable. If your marathons are 3:50, something is out of balance.
That 32:00 8K equates to 19:20 5k, so I'm guessing if this was a 5k, and you really kept the pedal to the medal at 5k effort, you'd easily be running about that. So, according to the MAF chart, when you get your MAF tests around 7:45, you'll be matching up, and should be able to run a pretty good marathon 3:10-ish.
Once you realize your full aerobic potential, you might also find that your 5k and MAF tests come together at a much lower positon on the chart. Maybe an 18:38 5k and a 7:30 MAF test. the aerobic development giving you better 5k times as well.
When everything is in balance, healthy, and at its potential, everything will be matching up, from 5k to marathon to MAF test.
That''s my take.
Jimmy, in Nov 08 I ran 3:15 for the marathon and then 1:29:48 HM the following Jan, 31:55 8k in March and 66:43 10 miler in April. The 10 miler is the best PR by most calculators and I actually think the half was my best time because of a hillier course. I've always done better at 10 miles to half marathon distances for some reason. My 5k PR is only 19:49 and I'm sure I'll break 40 for 10k before 19:30 for 5k, so I don't think I'm the typical speedy, but aerobically undeveloped runner.
On the 3:15, I really had an off day but managed to squeak by and get my BQ. I know it's easy to say I had an off day, but I've run enough of them to know I did. Based on my training, I thought 3:10 would be doable, but a lot can go wrong over 26.2. I also think 10 hours/week isn't enough to get my marathon to line up, but it's about all I'm willing to do.
That's a long way of saying that I've always outperformed the MAF tests at distances up to at least HM. Also, if the table is supposed to predict your marathon time equivalent to a given 5k then why didn't he just use marathon times in the table?
I was referring to the table I made where I popped those 5k times into the McMillan calculator (it's somewhere in this forum). Dr. Phil never writes about marathon times equating to MAF or the 5k times in those tables. Not that I've seen.
You can use my chart as a quickie reference for possible marathon times relating to your 5k pace according to the McMillan Calculator. As far as the MAF tests correlating, personally I have found that I've been in the ballpark. When I was 8:15 for the first mile, I ran a 3:22 marathon. Pretty close. Conditions and variables always play a part, as you wrote.
Another factor is that your MAF must be correct. You might be a +5 guy, or a -5 one.
More important than the charts and calculators (humans don't exist in such things) is discovering your own correlations. I know that I need to have my MAF tests around 9:15 (average pace) to run 3:28-3:30, and 8:30 to run 3:22. If I attempt a 3:30 when my MAF tests are averaging 10:00, I will crash.
Thanks for the great back and forth, Greg!
p.s. here's a piece of my creation:
MAF....5k pace....5k time.....Marathon.....Mpace
8:30....6:45..........20:58..........3:24:24...........7:49 8:28....6:44..........20:55..........3:23:55...........7:47 8:26....6:43..........20:52..........3:23:25...........7:46 8:24....6:42..........20:49..........3:22:56...........7:45 8:22....6:41..........20:46..........3:22:27...........7:44 8:20....6:40..........20:43..........3:21:58...........7:43 8:18....6:39..........20:40..........3:21:28...........7:42 8:16....6:38..........20:37..........3:20:59...........7:41 8:14....6:37..........20:33..........3:20:20...........7:39 8:12....6:36..........20:30..........3:19:51...........7:38 8:10....6:35..........20:27..........3:19:22...........7:37 8:08....6:34..........20:24..........3:18:52...........7:36 8:06....6:33..........20:21..........3:18:23...........7:35 8:04....6:32..........20:18..........3:17:54...........7:34 8:02....6:31..........20:15..........3:17:25...........7:32 8:00....6:30..........20:12..........3:16:55...........7:31 7:45....6:15..........19:25..........3:09:17...........7:14 7:30....6:00..........18:38..........3:01:39...........6:56 7:00....5:30..........17:05..........2:46:32...........6:22 6:30....5:15..........16:19..........2:39:04...........6:05 6:00....5:00..........15:32..........2:31:26...........5:47 5:45....4:45..........14:45..........2:23:48...........5:30 5:30....4:30..........13:59..........2:16:19...........5:12 5:15....4:20..........13:28..........2:11:17...........5:01 5:00....4:15..........13:12....... ..2:08:41...........4:55
Canberra half IM
Well all was going really well in my prep for my big Triathlon (Sunday),
I'd done the training and even a few speed sessions and felt great and was tapering nicely.
I had been working longish hours which wasnt ideal (sitting in front of the computer - not great posture)
and yesterday afternoon I got up awkardly and seem to have tweaked a muscle in my lower back
Its not agony but its not nothing either.
My first reaction was to go ahead and do the Tri anway, but then I thought is that what Doctor Phil would recommend?
So it looks like I'll have to pass and wait till next year (this is the last one here in Melbourne as we are coming into winter)
I guess lessons learned - watch my posture, work on strenghtening my lower back - its been an issue before - and maybe dont book in advance for Tris (though there is always the chance they will fill, they seldom do)
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Sean,
I have not posted on this site for some time now ,so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
Seems to me you are bagging it too early , It's Wednesday , not Saturday. See how it feels , take some Advil or something. I had pretty bad back pain myself last week but it's all gone now. Only you know what you can take but I wouldn't want to wait a year knowing I didn't try . Remember, DNF> Never Tried
Good Luck, Greg
Well all was going really well in my prep for my big Triathlon (Sunday), I'd done the training and even a few speed sessions and felt great and was tapering nicely. I had been working longish hours which wasnt ideal (sitting in front of the computer - not great posture) and yesterday afternoon I got up awkardly and seem to have tweaked a muscle in my lower back Its not agony but its not nothing either. My first reaction was to go ahead and do the Tri anway, but then I thought is that what Doctor Phil would recommend? So it looks like I'll have to pass and wait till next year (this is the last one here in Melbourne as we are coming into winter) I guess lessons learned - watch my posture, work on strenghtening my lower back - its been an issue before - and maybe dont book in advance for Tris (though there is always the chance they will fill, they seldom do)
Do a little lower back stretching and see how it feels Sunday morning. I have the same issue with my back. Good luck.
Run until the trail runs out.
2012**Run 40 miles week
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PR 5K**10K**26.2
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Thanks Greg, Clay,
yeah I'm still not giving up - I was put off by my flatmate predicting all kinds of serious repurcussions from running with a back injury, but I think if its just muscle it should be doable.
Good call to wait till Sat and make a game day decision. Try some light running (very slow) at a track. That way you can see what happens and not be stuck on an out-and-back.
One odd thing I've tried (recommended to me by a running partner who happens to be a 2:29 marathoner) when faced with some aches and pains or soreness that is nagging (quad or hip, etc.) I go for a blow out speed workout. Sometimes going fast loosens the muscles so they can get back into place. I'm not recommending this for you since 1) its a back issue 2) I am no physician 3) it has some high risks 4) I have no clue on your training/current situation. Put that one in the tool chest for leg issues. It does however, support that trying to run at some level will help you loosen or figure out if you are injured or just hurt.
Good luck.
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