Low HR Training

"Race Report & Upcoming Races" Thread (Read 7705 times)

    I hoping for sub-3 in the fall. For Boston, I still have no clue maybe sub-3:10..
    Nice race, DVC! I'd say 3:07 at Boston is definitely within your reach.
    Shiksa


    Aerobigal! (thx Jimmy!)

      Holy cow! I just uploaded the Garmin data from the weekend run. Total ascent: 4351 feet! Shocked Total descent: 4252 feet No wonder we were all so tired. Smile Thank you for the nice words. It feels great. I think I'll be back running on Wednesday. I took the last two days off and won't have time to run again until then.
      Stacy
      I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://stacyruns.wordpress.com/
      Shiksa


      Aerobigal! (thx Jimmy!)

        Wonderful report DVC! You nearly had flames coming out from the soles of your shoes. Big grin
        Stacy
        I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://stacyruns.wordpress.com/
        jimmyb


        port-a-bella-potty

          I ran a tune up half-marathon So for Boston I think I'll follow the same plan but just extend it. Go 160 for 5-6 miles, 162 for the next 6, 163-164 until top of Heartbreak and then see how I feel the last 10k. If I feel good maybe let it go up to 166/167 for the next 5k, then the last 5k who knows.....
          Nice tune-up, DCV. You definitely have your poo-poo together. Many words of advice: "Let--go--of--the--gel--once--it--leaves--your--hand--it's--gone--man--gone-- grieve--a--moment--then--get--on--with--life--there--will--be--other--gels-- they--might--not--taste--the--same--they--might--feel--different--when--you-- squeeze--them--but--the--boost--will--be--the--same--the--sticky--hands--will--be-- the--same--once--you--have--loved--a--gel--truly--loved--a--gel--then--you--will-- be--able--to--love--all--gels--so--let--it--go--if--it--comes--back--to--you-- then--you--are--probably--having--a--shamanistic--experience." Have a great marathon. I hope it's fun for you. --Jimmy

          Log    PRs

            Nice tune-up, DCV. You definitely have your poo-poo together. Many words of advice: "Let--go--of--the--gel--once--it--leaves--your--hand--it's--gone--man--gone-- grieve--a--moment--then--get--on--with--life--there--will--be--other--gels-- they--might--not--taste--the--same--they--might--feel--different--when--you-- squeeze--them--but--the--boost--will--be--the--same--the--sticky--hands--will--be-- the--same--once--you--have--loved--a--gel--truly--loved--a--gel--then--you--will-- be--able--to--love--all--gels--so--let--it--go--if--it--comes--back--to--you-- then--you--are--probably--having--a--shamanistic--experience." Have a great marathon. I hope it's fun for you. --Jimmy
            If I was racing, the gel would have gone bye-bye, but since it was still in the training part of the run, I got it. Hey it cost me all of $0.85! and I didn't even use until after I was done with the race....
              great race reports from this past weekend everyone- thanks for sharing


              run-easy-race-hard

                Bull Run Run 50 miles - 08 I last ran this race in 06, following several days of heavy rains. The course, mostly all dirt trails, was completely covered with mud and standing water that year and with all of the out and back segments, much of it was hardly runnable. This year would be the year to see what it's like under "normal" conditions and I should be able to beat my "miserable conditions" time of 8:55 for this course. Of course in the days leading up, there would be a considerable amount of rain, but not as much as in 06. However, the real problem this year would be that temps would get into the 70s. The 70s is fine, but not when all of my runs since the end of January have been in 40s and below. On the Friday before the race, it was already getting warm and, in fact, I never switched to air conditioning, so I just rolled around in bed, not able to sleep well, being overly hot and too tired to get up and turn on the A/C. I ended up sleeping about 2 1/2 hrs before the alarm at 3:30. Since there were still several hours before the race I was able to pop in an English Muffin, and get in the usual pre-race ritual, with extra body glide today to handle the mud and predicted rains. At the race start, I noticed what a comfortable temperature it was outside, which is always a bad sign before a long race because that means that later, it will be hot. I knew at this point, that I would have to constantly stay in tune with my body and be prepared to cut back as the temperature dictated. I'd say it was about 5 miles in until I started feeling the effects of the warm temperatures and high humidity. After 10 miles, I was already starting to feel miserable. Mind you, 70 degrees is a great temperature, but only when I've been running in 70+ for a number of weeks. In this case, I've had one run over 50 degrees since the end of January and I remember how much I hated that. How would I tolerate 40 more miles and what are the chances that the peak temperature for the day would occur at 9 am? The heat was affecting me in many ways and I knew that hydration and electrolytes would be a challenge. When training has not included warm weather for a while, the right balance of fluids, electrolytes and food becomes a guessing game. But not only that, the accumulation of running in the warm weather tends to "age" me in the race much quicker (e.g., 10 miles feels like 30 or 40 miles, etc.) and my footing gets sloppier, I kick a lot more rocks and roots, and I start to fall frequently. My first fall occurred in about in mile 8 or so, and it was so hard it through me into shock. I ended up with a golf ball sized welt on my forearm and large bruises on both legs. It took me a couple of minutes to really get moving again. This was a sign to me to cut back and that my body did not want me to push the boundary anymore, so I just slowed it down into a comfortable pace. Shortly after a friend, John, caught up with me and I ran with him for at least 10 miles or so. It was really good having some company. He appeared to sound a lot better than I did and I felt like I was holding him back, so after I while I would try to run up ahead at certain points, knowing that he would catch up. Around mile 20 or so, we approach the Bull Run soccer fields. I was following a few in front and there was a pack behind me and somehow I think we missed the streamers and took a different zigzag path around the fields because there were runners coming from other directions that we eventually met back up with. I knew we would come back upon this section of the race later, so I would sort it out then. A couple of miles later on the trail, I spotted a long black object about 15 feet ahead, sprawled across the trail, I slowed my approach and noted that it was a 4 ft black snake. I kept my distance and slowly approached; fortunately he was making his way across. He gave me a peak and a "keep your distance" kind of look, so I obliged and ran off the trail for a moment when I passed. I then called out a notification to a number of folks behind that they should miss the view of the snake coming up. I kept my process of running up ahead at various points, but I noticed that this time John had not caught up. I was certain I would see him at my next low point. At each aid station it was an adventure to figure out what to do. The heat really made me lose my appetite, but I knew I had to get in food and electrolytes. I could feel that my hydration and electrolyte balance was marginally stable. I drank Coke, orange soda, and would take in as much in the of potato chips, fritos, PB&J, and pretzels as I could but it wasn't as much as I would normally. Fortunately, chicken noodle soup started to appear along with olives, and they really started to help a lot. I was offered S-caps several times, but I passed because I don't train with them and they can really have a significant effect. In retrospect, I probably should have taken one or two since I really didn't want to eat. Without the chicken soup, I don't think I would have had a choice. Around mile 28 or 30, it started to rain hard. It really felt great - a tremendous relief. I felt alive again, but also I was feeling my bumps and bruises. It didn't take long after the rain stopped until the sun came out and my misery returned. Around mile 34 I hit an extremely steep climb, which I started to hike. All of a sudden both of my inner thighs cramped up with intense pain and I could barely move. I've never experienced this one. I hobbled my way to the top of the climb and once the terrain leveled off, the muscles relaxed. Fortunately, I wouldn't experience this one for the rest of the race. I'd been pretty lucky with the mud so far with some minor slips and falls, but nothing tremendous ... until now.. I ran through an unavoidable mud pit at around mile 36 that pulled off my shoe and sucked it down. It took me a few minutes to get it out and get my self resituated. Putting my shoe on was painful and my calf muscle tightened up like a rock. It took about 5 minutes of recovery for me to regain my bearings after this one. I had become as fragile as a fancy wine glass. At about mile 38 as I was crossing a stream, I wondered to myself why I wasn't taking advantage of the streams! I stomped right into it and showered myself off and it just felt great. I would do this for the remaining stream crossings, without regard to other runners passing me when I'm doing it. Mile 40 is always a good point in a 50 mile race, because I can taste the end and just count down the miles. Around mile 47 is a return over a rocky section by the river which is very hard to traverse, but a great excuse to walk very slowly and carefully. Finally with about a mile to go there's very steep climb, mostly of steps before the last 1/3 mile stretch to the finish. I heard someone behind me, noted that my current heart rate was about 150, and decided to take these steps hard. By the time my HR hit 168, I was completely out of breath, barely able to move! Clearly after 50 exhausting miles, I no longer have the ability to get my HR over 200! Nonetheless, the little surge was enough to ward off the approaching runner. I kicked it in for the home stretch for a miserably disappointing, but tremendously relieving, finish of 9:36! What a pummeling.
                gregw


                  Way to persevere, Jesse. Too bad they didn't run the race today. It was 68 at 6am yesterday! I ran at 3:30 and it felt terrible -- 74 degrees, dp of 56. This morning, it was a perfect 55 degrees. Springtime in DC.


                  run-easy-race-hard

                    Way to persevere, Jesse. Too bad they didn't run the race today. It was 68 at 6am yesterday! I ran at 3:30 and it felt terrible -- 74 degrees, dp of 56. This morning, it was a perfect 55 degrees. Springtime in DC.
                    No doubt - today would have been perfect! Too bad I can't even run to take advantage of it! This is about the most beat up I've been after about any race. Hopefully I didn't screw up my chances for a decent Boston (but I think I did).
                      Wow...another amazing report, Jesse. I'm not sure whether reading your ultra race reports inspire me, or scare the daylights out of me when/if I get into them. Why not train with s-caps? (or salt sticks, etc) I use salt stick tablets, and man I've had great luck with them, even when doing 20+ mile runs in very hot temps. Of course, I'm just now breaking them out. I used them a bit too early in cooler temps on an easy 21 miler last weekend, and was retaining too much water. Bleh. Such a delicate line we walk, huh? Smile Good luck to all of you running Boston next weekend. (well, Monday) And a huge grats out to Ryan Hall who ran 2:06:17 at London today. Not bad for a one year marathon anniversary run. I hope he medals in Beijing. Smile I'll be in Boston next year. Can't wait. Wink


                      Master of Inconsistency

                        Just wanted to wish you well after your self inflicted beating Wink Heal up, I want to read a good Boston report! Greg

                        Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !


                        run-easy-race-hard

                          Wow...another amazing report, Jesse. I'm not sure whether reading your ultra race reports inspire me, or scare the daylights out of me when/if I get into them. Why not train with s-caps? (or salt sticks, etc) I use salt stick tablets, and man I've had great luck with them, even when doing 20+ mile runs in very hot temps. Of course, I'm just now breaking them out. I used them a bit too early in cooler temps on an easy 21 miler last weekend, and was retaining too much water. Bleh. Such a delicate line we walk, huh? Smile Good luck to all of you running Boston next weekend. (well, Monday) And a huge grats out to Ryan Hall who ran 2:06:17 at London today. Not bad for a one year marathon anniversary run. I hope he medals in Beijing. Smile I'll be in Boston next year. Can't wait. Wink
                          Really, the only reason I haven't trained with them is because I haven't needed them and I've made it a point in ultras to just take in enough salty foods. However, there have been two instances where the heat has been much higher than what I was used to at the time and they may have been helpful. One thing I've learned for sure, just like with carbs, those that I know that take them regularly in training cannot run without them and I don't want that type of dependence on anything. However, that doesn't preclude me from considering them if the conditions are abnormally hotter than what I'm used to at the time. If yesterday had been in the 90s, I'm quite sure I would have taken a couple.
                          jimmyb


                          port-a-bella-potty

                            Jesse, Great report. Some gems in this one. "I had become as fragile as a fancy wine glass" Yup, no cheap, run of the mill wine glass fragility for you. "I ended up with a golf ball sized welt on my forearm and large bruises on both legs. It took me a couple of minutes to really get moving again. This was a sign to me to cut back and that my body did not want me to push the boundary anymore..." Almost a full ultra-stigmata--I think it was a sign from God! Keep going, Jesse. Still a inspiration. --Jimmy

                            Log    PRs

                              All right, assuming this is where we post running reports, I'll start. Sad learning experience at Boston. First time at Boston having qualified last year w/a 3:19 at the National Marathon and then suffering through 8 months of hip and knee injuries that heavily limited training until a couple months ago. I muddled through last summer, felt good enough to run Marine Corps, and somehow injured my left knee (i believe from going too hard downhill). Essentially complete rest in November, December, January, and slow buildup in February. I wasn't even sure i would be able to run Boston, but it all came around pretty well and got some decent cross-training in. So, my long runs were not long (I biked for an hour or more beforehand to try and simulate the benefits). Now, mistake #1: used this year's national marathon as a training run. Kept pace easy except for a 6 mile spurt of near marathon pace, finished 3:45 and felt great. From there, went into taper and followed the plan and felt good about Monday. Figured I could throw down a 3:26-3:28. Having grown up near Boston, the event itself was a hoot. They make you feel like a bigshot. Everything's so well organized it's ridiculous. Decided to stay at a Marriott Courtyard a few miles from the start and take the van to the village (getting an extra hour or two of warm room time). A great idea if you have someone to pick you up in Boston. Wandered around like a lost puppy for a while trying to figure out where bag drop and start was, but all pretty easy and inspiring. Having heard a million times to take it easy at the start of the race, I decided to do the same, or not. Seems that going downhill seems easy even fast. I burned through my first few miles at @ 7:20 pace (HR @ 144, which is a normal marathon HR for me). Being surrounded by runners who are faster (especially given my injury) filled me with a misguided calm. I was letting people pass thinking I was taking it easy . . . So sun comes out almost at the start and I decide to drink a lot of Gatorade, but the heck with gels because I don't need 'em. The first 10 miles really just flew by as I held a steady pace (slower now, but still @ the same HR). One quick pit stop gives me a slower mile, but no biggie. Screaming college kids are fun, but not up to the hype. Still, I high five and scream back. I cross halfway at 1:41 and change. Excellent, I think, right on pace. Bump through 14-19, fighting a little boredom and keeping pace/HR. See family at 19 and feel GREAT. Hot on the bald head, but otherwise, fantastic. (Oh, and I'm trying my new Mizuno WaveRiders for this race instead of my heavier, cushier, Creations). The hills arrive and, again, I feel great. Sort of proud, actually, that I can ascend so calmly. (During my knee rehab, I logged a LOT of miles on a treadmill set at 3% grade or higher . . . less impact). The only upsetting part is the very steep downhill in the middle here. I get over Heartbreak and say, "let's go." I know from experience that I can kick it up a few beats on the HRM and huff it home. I do about a mile like that going downhill pretty hard. Then, the wheels start to fall off. I can't hold the pace . . . or the HR. It's downhill for Pete's sake. Now I'm getting a little woozy. I've hydrated like crazy, but I'm starting to get that uh-oh the wall is near feeling. Now it's a struggle to keep the HR at 142. Pace falls to 8:30 for mile 24, same thing with mile 25 and I'm fighting hard to keep the feet moving and the bad knees giving me some ominous feedback. Coming downhill I can see where I have to go and it looks 50 miles away. Now the stomach's feeling weird and I dash into the port-a-potty at the mile 25 med tent for another pit-stop which, without going into graphic detail, was a little more than I bargained for. Close avoidance of ugly uta pippig moment. Spend a couple minutes sweltering in that smelly box. I trot out and it's survival mode. One foot in front of the other. I throw down a blistering 10:30 for mile 25. I struggle the last 1/3 mile at HR 142 and 8:15 pace. It's not pretty and I'm angry that this was supposed to be a triumphant dash Boylston and not a put-your-best-face on a bad march moment. I cross and start scanning for medical help just in case I drop . . . I don't -- although there are more than a few around me who are getting wheelchairs. (Again, organization was fantastic here). I see lots of people who are suffering and lots who ran and trained smarter. I know the media says it was a "perfect" day for running because it was mid-50s at the end, but it felt a heck of a lot hotter in the sun and further inland. I stumble down for the silver blanket of pride and medal, drink about 4 of those waters and snarf a recovery bar and start hunting for my bag and family. Final score: 3:33 and change. I really don't know what happened there. Dehydrated, the wall, just a good quad thrashing? Today, my knee is beat and locked up a bit. Clearly, the downhill running is a problem. I'm bitter but incentivized. I will train smart this summer and avoid injury. I will run consistently but not too hard. I will correct my mistakes. I will be back. My apologies if this sounds like indulgent self-pity. I'm still aggravated. Still, I ran Boston. I enjoyed most of it. I am awed at the organization and the attention it garners.
                                Although my wife does not post here, she has been heart rate training for Boston and I wanted to give a small snippet of a race report to note her progress. She uses some Jimmy advice and predictors I pass along to her, and she has traded emails with Jesse/formationflier and he has helped push her to run easier to stay healthy and develop more aerobic fitness. Anyway, her Boston time was 3:21 (7:40 pace). That's a PR of over 13 minutes since her last PR at the end of Sept '07. She ran even splits and had a strong finish. She was not plagued by slowing down the last 10k or any stomach issues that she has had in past marathons. She did not seemed very fatigued after the race, and really did not have much soreness. We walked around downtown for a few miles the evening after the race and she was having no problem walking or going up/down stairs. She was a tad stiff last night, though, after a 14 hour car ride home. Although she is taking a few days off, she said she would not have had any issues running yesterday (day after race) and keeping good form. My kids & I had a good time as spectators at miles 6 and 25. We were able to meet up with Jesse in Boston, and I showed him the best technique for reheating leftover cheseburgers & fries. I'm looking forward to reading all the other Boston reports. I'm off to work to catch up after missing 4 days.