Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23077 times)

    I got nearly 5 miles yesterday, but was feeling pretty tired. Avg pace 14:20, HR 141 (MAF 144). The neat thing was that run completed my first ever 5 day running streak. I feel like I am starting to get the hang of this consistency idea.

     

    No running today. Feeling tired. Work is a little crazy; it's peak season and I think the extra workload is more physically stressful than anticipated (loading trucks for FEDEX).

    Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

    Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

    Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


    Bad Ass

      "For those of you doing MAF for a year or more. How do you know if it's still working for you? I feel my easy pace has stalled but I am still getting PRs so my guess is that it's still working for me."

       

      I personally calculate heart beats per minute, which at MAF pace, I think is a very very good metric of pure aerobic efficiency.

       

      I'm interested in the low HR training that this group is doing.   OVer the next 2-3 months, I'm going to try to do as many miles as possible at or below MAF heart rate.

       

      I think that I have this right?

       

      Age 42.  So 180-42=138.   I'm probably pretty well trained, so I could add 5 beats, so my max is 142?

       

       

      I ran a marathon on December 1st with an average heart rate of 155.   Over the next two months, I'll do a couple of 50k ultras and overall I'd like to increase my overall aerobic efficiency and I think low HR training will work best for me.

       

      Since the marathon most of my runs have been in the range of 130-133.   Do I have the concept right?

       

      Why have the runs being in the range of 130-133?  Just coincidence or on purpose.  It sounds fine, event he marathon HR since that's what I shoot for and my MAF is 143.

       

      I have not run in three days.  Just taking it easy.

      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

      Blog

      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

      andrew.albright


        Why have the runs being in the range of 130-133?  Just coincidence or on purpose.  It sounds fine, event he marathon HR since that's what I shoot for and my MAF is 143.

         

        I've arrived at this number for a couple of reasons.   For the marathon I ran on Dec 1st, I targeted 8 mpm (finish was 8:11).  In training, when I did 8 mpm my heart rate would start in the low 140's (probably abouve MAF = 142 for me), but then creep up to 150'ish.  Clearly at this pace I had cardiac drift.

         

        At first I was going to target 9 mpm, but when my heart rate was lower than 130 for 9 minute miles, I decided maybe 130 HR was a good starting point.

         

        So my plan right now (open to suggestions) is to run most miles at 130-133 as I increase my mileage from 50-55 to 60 miles this week. I'd like to see if I can handle 70 on a regular basis.

         

        Also, I want to experiment to see if I can get to the point where I can run 130 heart rate for 10-12 miles without the significant cardiac drift that I saw when I was doing a lot of miles at marathon pace.  (Ideas from Friel and Hadd).  Then I might consider increasing the effort to 135-140 one or two runs a week.

         

        Lastly, once every 7-10 days I'm running a bit faster for a few miles (over MAF).

         

        Is this in-line with low hr training?  Do I more or less "have it right"?

           

           

          Majope, I didn't realize it was 1/2 hr increments...another 1/4 mile and I'd have had 2 hrs!  Oh well.

           

          John

           Yeah, you get that close, try to go over! I used to do my long Sunday run by mileage and it was always about 2 hours, a couple minutes either way. Now I set my watch for 2:01:00 so I don't miss the bonus, and let the mileage fall where it may. 

           

          Here's a copy-and-paste from the original thread for future reference:

           

          Time Bonus

          total x ____

          x 1 = 30 minutes or under
          x 1.5 = 31 - 60 minutes
          x 2 = 61 - 90 minutes
          x 2.5 = 91 - 120 minutes
          x 3 = 121 - 150 minutes
          x 3.5 = 151 - 179 minutes

          x 4 = 3+ hours


          Bad Ass

            Morning!  I have not run in 3 days so I guess I'll try a few miles tonight.  Taking a break from running these last few days.

             

            andrew, I hope somebody else chimes in, as I'm no expert in the art of MAF.  I usually run at my 142-143 and never run slower.  I wonder whether your lower HR running has allowed you to improve faster or to the contrary.  It is all very interesting.

            Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

            Blog

            "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

            jimmyb


            port-a-bella-potty

              "For those of you doing MAF for a year or more. How do you know if it's still working for you? I feel my easy pace has stalled but I am still getting PRs so my guess is that it's still working for me."

               

              I personally calculate heart beats per minute, which at MAF pace, I think is a very very good metric of pure aerobic efficiency.

               

              I'm interested in the low HR training that this group is doing.   OVer the next 2-3 months, I'm going to try to do as many miles as possible at or below MAF heart rate.

               

              I think that I have this right?

               

              Age 42.  So 180-42=138.   I'm probably pretty well trained, so I could add 5 beats, so my max is 142?

               

               

              I ran a marathon on December 1st with an average heart rate of 155.   Over the next two months, I'll do a couple of 50k ultras and overall I'd like to increase my overall aerobic efficiency and I think low HR training will work best for me.

               

              Since the marathon most of my runs have been in the range of 130-133.   Do I have the concept right?

               

              Go with 142, but make sure you monitor your aerobic speed (speed at MAF) with MAF tests. It should be improving. If not, then maybe 138 would be better. Some people run at MAF -10 an below and do just fine. It actually takes some of the guessing out of whether or not you should be taking the adjustments. Phil Maffetone does suggest spending time at your MAF though. Experiment. I find both ways work.

               

              The attention you are paying to your cardiac drift is good. It should reduce as you get more aerobically fit. There will always be some, but it does get better. I structure most of my runs on cardiac drift. I call it "heart time" (click to read about it).

               

               

              TODAYS RUN:

              2:23:00  @ MAF 130

              9.13 miles

               

               

              --JimmyCool

              Log    PRs

                Muddy, raining slip n'slide run today. 3.5 miles around maf...  sliding sideways downhill had my heart rate going over. Lots of steep banked downhill on soft clay... I think my shoes may have weighed 10 lbs at one point. All the little stabilizer muscles definitely got a good workout. Good times Big grin

                Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

                Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

                Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


                Chasing the bus

                  4 miles through the Christmas lit sidestreets, apocalyptic sound track whispering, half formed prayers drifting through my mind while quite cross streets drift by and the occasional startled car on their solstice errands, my knee complaining softly to one shooting star that kept me looking up the rest of my run. Now i sit here with coffee and ice for my knee in a quiet house. And if this is the way the world ends it should do it every day.

                  “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
                  Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test


                  Consistently Slow

                    "For those of you doing MAF for a year or more. How do you know if it's still working for you? I feel my easy pace has stalled but I am still getting PRs so my guess is that it's still working for me."

                     

                    I personally calculate heart beats per minute, which at MAF pace, I think is a very very good metric of pure aerobic efficiency.

                     

                    I'm interested in the low HR training that this group is doing.   OVer the next 2-3 months, I'm going to try to do as many miles as possible at or below MAF heart rate.

                     

                    I think that I have this right?

                     

                    Age 42.  So 180-42=138.   I'm probably pretty well trained, so I could add 5 beats, so my max is 142?

                     

                     

                    I ran a marathon on December 1st with an average heart rate of 155.   Over the next two months, I'll do a couple of 50k ultras and overall I'd like to increase my overall aerobic efficiency and I think low HR training will work best for me.

                     

                    Since the marathon most of my runs have been in the range of 130-133.   Do I have the concept right?

                     

                     

                    Your maff test. You will PR because you are in better condition.

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                    2013***1500 miles

                    50 miler

                    Race Less Train More

                     

                    Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                    "The Marble in The Groove"

                     

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                    Chasing the bus

                      I lied. 6.33 miles tempo run tonight, well above MAF. First real break from LHR since I started.  Started out aiming for 6 miles @ 11 mm, after first two miles the pace was almost 10 and the knee felt great, so set my goal to PR 10k. I missed it by 3 min's, but that PR was a flat course and I did 900' vertical tonight.  That's the first run I could really call fun in a long time. I like pushing myself. It's probably why I keep getting hurt.

                      “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
                      Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test


                      Bad Ass

                        Well, I have not run all week.  I tried to do a 5K race yesterday and was tripped by this girl and ended up falling hard on my knee.  Will try a test run tomorrow.  Today, I'm heavy with DOMS, LOL.

                         

                        I was sad because it was 43F (unheard of in Miami) and a good time to race by HR to see what I could do when it's not 90F and 97% humidity.

                        Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                        Blog

                        "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                          Okay, I blew the whole Maff thing today. In my defense, the air temp was -13F with a wind chill of -29F. I had ~5 miles to do, and wanted to get it done as quickly as possible, so didn't even look at my HR and just went for it. I found I was still limited by a couple of things: it does feel strange to move back up to near-previous speeds when I haven't run that fast in months, and the extreme cold makes my lungs hurt when I start breathing hard, so I kept dropping back to easier breathing, if still well above MAF. So my overall pace was a still pretty slow 12:50 (old paces usually between 11:30-12:30), but the last half mile was in 11:08 and felt very comfortable. I couldn't have gone that fast the first couple of miles, so I don't know if it was having warmed up for 5 miles first, or that my legs were remembering what faster running felt like, or what.

                           

                          Back to MAF tomorrow, I swear!

                           

                          Damaris--sorry you got tripped. That sucks.

                           

                          Furthur--try not to hurt yourself! But I agree, speeding up does feel good sometimes.


                          Consistently Slow

                            8-10 mile run turned into 16 + 1 mile C/D. HR 130 /156. Maff 123.

                            Will run stay at maff tomorrow if  the rain holds off.

                             

                            Damaris-you have to keep an eye old those young girls or were you watching her to close.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                            2013***1500 miles

                            50 miler

                            Race Less Train More

                             

                            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                            "The Marble in The Groove"

                             

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                            Bad Ass

                              Apparently she was not watching me at all.  She cut me off to pass me but she was too slow and ended up pushing me out of the way and on to the floor.  Ouch.

                               

                              Will try my LR tomorrow.  We'll see.  The cold front (only one in Miami for sure) left already, bah.

                               

                              8-10 mile run turned into 16 + 1 mile C/D. HR 130 /156. Maff 123.

                              Will run stay at maff tomorrow if  the rain holds off.

                               

                              Damaris-you have to keep an eye old those young girls or were you watching her to close.

                              Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                              Blog

                              "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


                              Bad Ass

                                Morning!  I did 20 at 145HR and 11:25mm.  I think there was a slight malfunction of the HRM because the first 10 miles had me at below 140HR and the last 10 at close to 160HR.  That's almost my HM heart rate.  Very weird.  Still, not far from my average HR (143) for Maf, but I bet it was really 140 or thereabouts.

                                 

                                Which brings me to my question: How often to do change the batteries of your HRM?  This one is two months old.  They usually don't start malfunctioning on me until it's time to change the battery.

                                Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                                Blog

                                "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."