Low HR Training

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Talk to me about slower/lower mileage runners... (Read 442 times)

    Heyya- I've been stalking this group. I've been running for 3 years, probably averaging 10 miles a week, but with several injury and recovery periods (PF, piriformis, ITB - classic overuse-ish injuries). I'm a small, overweight, slow runner (my last 5k was a 14mm). I trained for but did not run a half marathon last June (injured the week after my longest run of 10 miles - not running related, it was a tragic fall from a barstool after my law school graduation). Anyway, I've signed up for that same half next June and I'm looking for the best way to spend my winter before I start really ramping up mileage in the spring. So, the question is, as I read Jesse's FAQs, I seem like a good candidate for this type of training, and I'm attracted to the idea of spending the winter running longer at a lower heart rate. Except, at my current mileage (9-12 mpw), am I going to get anywhere? Jesse seems to sort of say, at lower miles, just run more. What's the current consensus? Also, there's the superslowness - I've been running under MAF 3 times a week for the last couple weeks, my last run was 3 miles, 56 minutes, AHR of 143 (MAF is 146 - and that 143 is averaging also where the HRM freaked out and would read in the 220s a couple times). Am I just wasting my time jogging like a slowpoke, when I should really focus on ramping up my mileage at my relatively speedy 14m miles? Will I see improvements in my fitness doing 4 hours a week of LRHT that I wouldn't see just running 12 miles a week (and ramping up to 15-20 over the next 3months) and not staying under MAF? Thoughts?
    BeeRunB


      Read all the Maffetone material you can get your hands on. Training For Endurance, Maffetone Mathod, and the free stuff on his website. The important thing is to avoid over-training. So, build TIME on your feet slowly. Stay in your HR zone. Take regular MAF tests. The tests will tell you when you are overdoing it. If you continue to improve, you aren't. Good luck! --Jimmy
        AHR of 143 (MAF is 146 - and that 143 is averaging also where the HRM freaked out and would read in the 220s a couple times).
        Don't use the average, keep your HR absolutely below 146 as best you can at all times. In fact, try subtracting 5 to 10 from 146 (if you can believe it). I tried the "average" approach a while back and after 4 months found that I was making no progress. Also, a sporadic HR of 220 probably indicates that you are having a conductivity/connectivity problem with your monitor. This happened with my Garmin 405 all the time until I applied some saliva at the point where it contacts the skin before exercise; that should stabilize your HR monitor readings. Also, the benefits of this approach are generally proportional to running volume (to paraphrase Mark Allen's endorsement of the Maffetone method). If you are exercising <15 mi week, it is debatable as to whether or not you are getting enough low hr training stimulus. mi="" week,="" it="" is="" debatable="" as="" to="" whether="" or="" not="" you="" are="" getting="" enough="" low="" hr="" training=""></15 mi week, it is debatable as to whether or not you are getting enough low hr training stimulus.>
          Also, the benefits of this approach are generally proportional to running volume (to paraphrase Mark Allen's endorsement of the Maffetone method). If you are exercising <15 mi="" week,="" it="" is="" debatable="" as="" to="" whether="" or="" not="" you="" are="" getting="" enough="" low="" hr="" training=""></15>
          So that's my question. If my choices are to spend an hour 4 times a week going 4.5-5 miles or going 3 with my heart rate below MAF - which is the better way to spend my time? Thanks for the tip about the spit - I realized after you said that that I always have that problem at the beginning but it stabilizes after a few minutes - after I start to sweat! Doh. Today, I did 3.5 in 59.30, HR below MAF the whole time, avg. 143 (with the weird spikes at the beginning). That's a 17 something mile, actually a huge improvement over 2 weeks ago when I was having to go over 20mm to keep under MAF.
            So that's my question. If my choices are to spend an hour 4 times a week going 4.5-5 miles or going 3 with my heart rate below MAF - which is the better way to spend my time?
            I think you will be better off going with "3 with my heart rate below MAF." Of course, if this does not seem to work then you will at least know why. I really don't know what will be optimal for you, but I do feel strongly about the benefits of the low-HR training for other reasons, e.g., from a physical health perspective. Slowing things down helps avoid the other various injuries that plagued my running when in sugar-burning mode. So I recommend keeping it slow, and then most importantly, being patient over the long haul.
              I say if you can run at the faster rate without aches, pains, and injuries, go for it. You need to put more miles in and drop your weight. Once you get your weight down, if you can get there injury free, then do the low hr training. Just dropping the extra weight will help you. Run slowly, lots, walking when you have to, and eat less (the most important part) over the next couple of months. Drop weight, then go.

              "Run slowly, run daily, drink in moderation, and don't eat like a pig" Dr. Ernst Van Aaken. Sorry ultrasteve.

                So, since I'm really enjoying the super slow running, I think there's no real reason to stop now - especially since I've already seen an improvement in my speed at MAF. I figure if I can get to 20 mpw at MAF prior to beginning my half marathon training in March, it will be a fantastic base, regardless of my speed and at that point I'll decide based on my progress to that point whether I do my training at MAF or not. I'll be the guinea pig on this issue, since it seems like it's just something that people haven't seen done. Also, shouldn't the mileage below MAF be better for the weight loss?
                  I personally don't think so. High intensity workouts coupled with lean protein and veggies with a lower starch intake is the way to go for fat loss. Or, intermittent fasting.

                  "Run slowly, run daily, drink in moderation, and don't eat like a pig" Dr. Ernst Van Aaken. Sorry ultrasteve.

                    So, since I'm really enjoying the super slow running, I think there's no real reason to stop now - especially since I've already seen an improvement in my speed at MAF. I figure if I can get to 20 mpw at MAF prior to beginning my half marathon training in March, it will be a fantastic base, regardless of my speed and at that point I'll decide based on my progress to that point whether I do my training at MAF or not. I'll be the guinea pig on this issue, since it seems like it's just something that people haven't seen done. Also, shouldn't the mileage below MAF be better for the weight loss?
                    Leah - I think your right on the money. Aerobic training is what burns fat most efficiently, anaerobic training burns sugar, and increases your risk for injury to boot. You also mention the VERY important point that "I'm really enjoying the super slow running." In my opinion, this is the key to keeping going with the training, whether slow or not. The fact that you are enjoying yourself is great and will keep you active for the long haul. As far as the fat loss goes, since I started the low HR training 10 weeks ago, the weight is falling off me like never before, in fact, I can hardly eat enough to maintain my current weight which is great because I love to eat. But also remember that this is certainly proportional to running volume, e.g., I run 40 - 60 miles / week. I also recommend exercising in the morning before breakfast, or if not in the morning, wait at least 3 hrs since your last carb intake. This by itself is helpful to switching the "fat burn" switch in your body to "on," and is an important technique of the Maffetone low HR method. There are about a zillion posts in this Forum discussing the various aspects of carb intake and exercise and make sure to read the sticky: "Eating Before, During Running (Answer from Dr. Maffetone)."