Low HR Training

1

newbie a few questions (Read 516 times)

    hi

     

    pretty new to this and have a few questions.

     

    According to the maffetone book i have weights training is anaerobic. so does that mean during the base training i shouldnt do weights or is it only running that must be aersobic

     

    At what stage can i add weights if that is the case.

     

    Also my maf rate is 137 if i go over that for a few seconds here and there is that ok

     

    Stella

    jimmyb


    port-a-bella-potty

      Hi Stella,

       

      Welcome.

       

      Your speed at MAF (your aerobic speed) is the key indicator of whether or not your current training load is too much, too little, or just right. Your training load includes all of your exercise, both aerobic and anaerobic.

       

      What Dr. Phil has observed (and reports in his books and interviews) is that too much anaerobic exercise eventually leads to a breakdown of the aerobic system. In athletes who have come to him who have been broken down, overtrained and injured, the aerobic system is usually severely deficient. Most of those athletes just did too much at too hard of an intensity (anaerobic) for too long. When rebuilding aerobic systems that are so deficient, going over MAF for even just a few minutes in every workout, lifting weights, or doing any amount of anaerobic exercise can cause a plateau or regression in aerobic development. Doing too much volume too soon can have the same effect. Increased, chronic mental stress can also cause regression.

       

      Having seen this time and time again, he recommends that during your base period that you stay as aerobic as possible. Avoid anaerobic workouts. Build that solid aerobic base first. If you are aerobically deficient from overtraining, then repair it first.

       

      This doesn't mean that  some athletes can't experiment. Not everyone that comes to this training is broken down. Some can manage aerobic development with a little anaerobic work during the base period, whether it be strength or core training, or some strides once a week, etc.

       

      The key to knowing how you are fairing is your MAF tests, or the monitoring of your aerobic speed. Dr. Phil explains the MAF test in all the books I've read by him, and on his website. Make sure you warm-up at least 15 minutes before testing. Then you can run anywhere from 1-5 miles, 2-8k, or a certain amount of duration. Keeping track of your splits. Try to do the test on the same course. making note of the temperature, humidiity, wind speed, sun/overcast, and time of day. A test done in 70° might be a little slower than one run in 50°. You can test every 1-3 weeks, whatever. Just try not to stress about them. Dr. Phil recommends every 3-4 weeks so you don't stress.

       

      Some don't bother with formal tests, and just keep track of their daily speed at MAF, comparing similar runs on similar courses. Speed at MAF will vary from day to day for many reasons (exhaustion, dehydration, stress, etc.), so don't freak out if you run 10:00 pace one day, and 11:00 the next. You'll know it when you are progressing, regressing, or standing still. It will be very obvious.

       

      Once you've put a solid 12 weeks or more in and have seen progress, you might try some anaerobic work (in this training, anything above MAF is considered anaerobic, as you have engaged the anaerobic system). If your MAF tests get better, then that means you needed some anaerobic work, and it also means all is well. If you like racing, then get to the business of that. Do mostly MAF running between races , as there is no harder training load on the body than racing. Keep track of your aerobic speed. At some point, you will start to see regression. This means it is time to rest and return to base work.

       

      If you experiment with weights during a base period, if you see a plateau suddenly, or start to regress, then return to pure aerobic work.

       

      If your MAF is (e.g.) 140, you want to spend a good amount of time working out at that number. It's impossible to keep it right at 140. Normally what you will see is 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 140, 140, 139, 138, 139 etc. It fluctuates.Just do your best to keep it at 140. If it hangs on 141-142 for longer than a half minute, slow down. Sometimes you won't notice right away, that's alright, just get it back to the target. If you know you are on an incline, take a look at your watch. Same with going downhill---downhill is a good chance to get a bit of "free" speedwork in.

       

      Wherever you go with your training, keep track of your aerobic speed----and don't ignore what it is telling you---it never lies.

       

      Good luck. Hope this helped.

      --Jimmy

      Log    PRs

        Thanks Jimmy

         

        yes helped heaps i havent done a maf test but i wear a garmin and have all my workouts  so i can compare...

         

        I have Ms and after a year of train then crash then train then crash i thought this might work better as it sint putting so much stress on my body. So far its been good I did take a bit time off as ive been sick but just starting back this week and doing 3 to 4 x30 mins after warm up walk. I also do do a core workout once a week but wasnt sure if i should. so might drop that for a few weeks at least.

         

        I swim and sometimes ride but its all just slow easy stuff i cant wear my hr monitor in water but i just swim easy laps so should be ok..

         

        I will keep a close eye on my stats and see how i go. I ve got my garmin set to beep if i go over 140 so i dont ever stay there more than a few seconds so thats good

         

        thanks for the info it nmakes more sense now

        Shondek


          Hi Stella,

           

          Welcome.

           

          Your speed at MAF (your aerobic speed) is the key indicator of whether or not your current training load is too much, too little, or just right. Your training load includes all of your exercise, both aerobic and anaerobic.

           

          What Dr. Phil has observed (and reports in his books and interviews) is that too much anaerobic exercise eventually leads to a breakdown of the aerobic system. In athletes who have come to him who have been broken down, overtrained and injured, the aerobic system is usually severely deficient. Most of those athletes just did too much at too hard of an intensity (anaerobic) for too long. When rebuilding aerobic systems that are so deficient, going over MAF for even just a few minutes in every workout, lifting weights, or doing any amount of anaerobic exercise can cause a plateau or regression in aerobic development. Doing too much volume too soon can have the same effect. Increased, chronic mental stress can also cause regression.

           

          Having seen this time and time again, he recommends that during your base period that you stay as aerobic as possible. Avoid anaerobic workouts. Build that solid aerobic base first. If you are aerobically deficient from overtraining, then repair it first.

           

          This doesn't mean that  some athletes can't experiment. Not everyone that comes to this training is broken down. Some can manage aerobic development with a little anaerobic work during the base period, whether it be strength or core training, or some strides once a week, etc.

           

          The key to knowing how you are fairing is your MAF tests, or the monitoring of your aerobic speed. Dr. Phil explains the MAF test in all the books I've read by him, and on his website. Make sure you warm-up at least 15 minutes before testing. Then you can run anywhere from 1-5 miles, 2-8k, or a certain amount of duration. Keeping track of your splits. Try to do the test on the same course. making note of the temperature, humidiity, wind speed, sun/overcast, and time of day. A test done in 70° might be a little slower than one run in 50°. You can test every 1-3 weeks, whatever. Just try not to stress about them. Dr. Phil recommends every 3-4 weeks so you don't stress.

           

          Some don't bother with formal tests, and just keep track of their daily speed at MAF, comparing similar runs on similar courses. Speed at MAF will vary from day to day for many reasons (exhaustion, dehydration, stress, etc.), so don't freak out if you run 10:00 pace one day, and 11:00 the next. You'll know it when you are progressing, regressing, or standing still. It will be very obvious.

           

          Once you've put a solid 12 weeks or more in and have seen progress, you might try some anaerobic work (in this training, anything above MAF is considered anaerobic, as you have engaged the anaerobic system). If your MAF tests get better, then that means you needed some anaerobic work, and it also means all is well. If you like racing, then get to the business of that. Do mostly MAF running between races , as there is no harder training load on the body than racing. Keep track of your aerobic speed. At some point, you will start to see regression. This means it is time to rest and return to base work.

           

          If you experiment with weights during a base period, if you see a plateau suddenly, or start to regress, then return to pure aerobic work.

           

          If your MAF is (e.g.) 140, you want to spend a good amount of time working out at that number. It's impossible to keep it right at 140. Normally what you will see is 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 140, 140, 139, 138, 139 etc. It fluctuates.Just do your best to keep it at 140. If it hangs on 141-142 for longer than a half minute, slow down. Sometimes you won't notice right away, that's alright, just get it back to the target. If you know you are on an incline, take a look at your watch. Same with going downhill---downhill is a good chance to get a bit of "free" speedwork in.

           

          Wherever you go with your training, keep track of your aerobic speed----and don't ignore what it is telling you---it never lies.

           

          Good luck. Hope this helped.

          --Jimmy

           Sorry for hijacking the thread Guys just one clarification needed.Is comparing Maf times more accurate than say maf+10 times ..ie could you have an improvement   at Maf+10 but regression  at Maf

            If your MAF is (e.g.) 140, you want to spend a good amount of time working out at that number. It's impossible to keep it right at 140. Normally what you will see is 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 140, 140, 139, 138, 139 etc. It fluctuates.Just do your best to keep it at 140. If it hangs on 141-142 for longer than a half minute, slow down. Sometimes you won't notice right away, that's alright, just get it back to the target. If you know you are on an incline, take a look at your watch. Same with going downhill---downhill is a good chance to get a bit of "free" speedwork in.

             

             

            a bit of a nitpicking. for me it looks more like this (180-age formula = 153):

             

            153, 152, 149, 147, 151, 152, 152, 155, 157, 158, 154, 152, 151, 153, 151, 149, 146, 148, 150, 153, 156, 157, 159, 155, 154, 151, 148, 147...

             

            the oscillation is just greater than in your example. I mean I had to laugh at your "if it hangs on 141-142 for longer than half a minute...". totally not applicable in my case, as it is never as steady as that, but I wouldn't think it's relevant. just mentioning it so that if someone else has a similar experience they can see it is nothing to worry about and the training is still fine even if the HR goes over MAF by several beats.

             

             

            ps: from about 170 and up, my HR gets to be more similar to your example, it's less oscillation then, but it would be only from 190 and up where I could talk about it "holding onto" one specific value for half a minute.

              so some of mine

               

              136

              137

              136

              138

              138

              139

              that was last run before sick.

               

              first run back went

              136

              139

              132

              139

               

              My maf is 137 and i could add 5 as ive been exercising regularly for ages but then being sick id have to take off 5 etc so just stuack with the original number

               

              todays run on same course was

               

              131

              138

              131

              139

              jimmyb


              port-a-bella-potty

                a bit of a nitpicking. for me it looks more like this (180-age formula = 153):

                 

                153, 152, 149, 147, 151, 152, 152, 155, 157, 158, 154, 152, 151, 153, 151, 149, 146, 148, 150, 153, 156, 157, 159, 155, 154, 151, 148, 147...

                 

                the oscillation is just greater than in your example.

                 

                That's because I and my heartbeat are one. I have a sense of rhythm and beat and can vary my speed in imperceptible ways, holding a tempo like a metronome. Someday, Grasshopper, you will be able to snatch the GU packets from my hand, and leave the temple. Cool

                Log    PRs

                  That's because I and my heartbeat are one. I have a sense of rhythm and beat and can vary my speed in imperceptible ways, holding a tempo like a metronome. Someday, Grasshopper, you will be able to snatch the GU packets from my hand, and leave the temple. Cool

                   

                   

                  Shy

                   

                  btw, no, this is with holding the pace. there must be some scientific explanation or something, though. nevermind anyway. Smile

                  rarian


                    My understanding is that changes of heart rate are the result of the continuous feedback that the various parts of our bodies do to retain a homeostatic life. 

                    I have a friend whose wife was doing PhD research which involved exercise measurements of sedentary people.  My friend (very fit) was put through the same research routine as the sedentary people and his wife noticed his HR trace was different to those she had seen previously of the sedentary people.  Theirs had little movement, his moved all the time. She saw this as evidence of the heart's feedback loops in operation.

                      My understanding is that changes of heart rate are the result of the continuous feedback that the various parts of our bodies do to retain a homeostatic life. 

                      I have a friend whose wife was doing PhD research which involved exercise measurements of sedentary people.  My friend (very fit) was put through the same research routine as the sedentary people and his wife noticed his HR trace was different to those she had seen previously of the sedentary people.  Theirs had little movement, his moved all the time. She saw this as evidence of the heart's feedback loops in operation.

                       

                       

                       

                      great, then I must be very fit. Cool