Low HR Training

1

Moving From Maff Aerobic Running to Races (Read 40 times)

alanwyley


    Hi There,

     

    I'm a newbie to running, only started in 2012 and did my first half marathon and full marathon last year. I realise now that my aerobic base wasn't good enough (rookie mistake!!!) and have been doing nothing but aerobic running for the last couple of months.

     

    I'm 45 so my max aerobic rate is around 135 and my Maff test miles have come down to about 9.10 a mile from closer to 10.45 originally. So far so encouraging.

     

    I'm planning ahead to my first race of the year and hope to do a 5k on April 5 and a 10k on April 12.  My question is how do I plan my pace for the race?

     

    1. So in the race do I just run at 7 minute mile pace?  Or do I average it out and do the first mile at 7.15 per mile, second mile at 7 and third at 6.45?  (I've seen the tables that suggest 9 minute Maff = 21:45 5k (which sounds great but mad!).

     

    2. Or do I pace myself based on heart rate? And if so how do I do that?

     

    3. Finally, I was planning on using the races as my anaerobic training and not doing any other anaerobic runs.  Is that mad?

     

    All thoughts/inputs and comments would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks

    Alan

    runnerclay


    Consistently Slow

      Maff  pace chart  worked for me. I like your7:15-7:00-6:45

      Run until the trail runs out.

       SCHEDULE 2016--

       The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

      BeeRunB


        Hi Alan,

         

        Nice work on your aerobic speed.

         

        Racing styles and strategies vary among runners, and you'll probably try different things as the years go on. I'll give you a few strategies, one based on pace and the other on heart rate.

         

        PACE

        That chart from Dr. Maffetone on 5k race pace and MAF speed is ballpark. Since you're kind of starting from scratch this season, it might not be a bad pace to start with. The Goldilocks Law will come into play: it'll either be too slow, too fast, or just right. But most likely not way too fast or way too slow. Whatever the result of the first 5k, you will have a pace to work from for your next race.

         

        Before the races begin, you can use your heart rate monitor to get an idea what 5k pace might be good to start with. If you go to the Team Oregon Pace Wizard, you can get a 5k average heart rate (it's usually not far off for most people). I just went there and put in my HR info (you have to put a race in--it doesn't matter for HR, though). It gave me 191 bpm (96% MHR) for a 5k. Normally, I haven't raced with a heart rate monitor, except for data-gathering purposes, so I have data from a few 5k's, here's one from a hard-run one where I raced at that 5k uncomfortable pace:

         

        7:31  175   (88% MHR)
        7:10  187 (downhill)  (94% MHR)
        7:59  191 (uphill)   (96% MHR)
        0:49  193   (97% MHR)
        (high 195 bpm)  (98% MHR)

         

        ave pace 7:33

         

        Even though I was moving at race pace, the first mile of a 5k will bring the average down as it takes awhile for the HR to get up there. By the last half of mile 2,  I was in the ballpark. Near the end, the HR peaked above 191.  Not far from the prediction of The Wizard.

         

        I could devise a 1-mile tempo run based on first mile HR that could clue me into what my current 5k-pace is. My HR in the first mile probably spanned 165-185.

         

        --do a normal 20 minute warm-up like I would before a race

        --walk until my HR comes down

        --then starting running at a pace that gets my HR up to:

        ---------170 bpm (85% MHR) by the end of the first quarter mile

        ---------175 (88% MHR) by the end of the second quarter mile

        ---------180 (90% MHR) by the end of the 3rd quarter mile

        ---------185 (93% MHR)  by the end of the last quarter mile

         

        That should average about 175 or 88%MHR, and should give me a decent starting point for the first race. The Goldilocks Law will come into play.

         

        Now, your HR might do something completely different in a 5k, and such a tempo run might not work for you. If you choose to try it, go by %MHR, and see how the average pace matches up with Maffetone's chart.

         

        Over time, if you wear a HRM in a race just to gather data, you will see what your HR does, and can create your own tempos or intervals that will help you see what your 5k pace is. This idea works for all the race distances.

         

        USING PR'S

        Once you get into race season, you can just keep working off your PR's. If your recent PR was 7:00 pace, then start the next race at that pace and see how it goes. If you race longer distances, use the Wizard to get a pace to shoot for.

         

        HEART RATE

        If you decide to race by HR, I suggest using The Wizard to get your average HR's for any distance, then shave a few beats off to start. After awhile, you will learn what your HR does in races (there will always be the anomaly race here and there where it doesn't behave the same, I'm talking on the average). Then all you have to do is run the same "heartrate plan"  for each race, and the pace will be what it'll be. This is a great strategy if come race day the temperatures have shot up to 70-95º (and you're not used to these temps). A lot of people don't know how to adjust pace for a (e.g.) marathon when the temps get high.  Running by heart rate will keep you at the right pace for that day and that temperature. One of this forum's founding father's, Formationflier used to run all his races by HR, and it worked really well for him.

         

        It's a sound strategy during race season to run all training miles between races at MAF or below, using races as speed work. At our level, we really don't need more speed work if we're racing every week or two.  Dr. Phil tells the story of Mike Piggs' greatest year and how he did nothing but MAF in between races.

         

        In the end, your body and aerobic speed will guide you as you experiment and develop a system that works for you.

         

        Good luck!

         

        --Jimmy

         

         

        alanwyley


          Thanks a million, that is brilliant input from you both, it's great to get some feedback from people who know what they're talking about, stops me losing the faith!!!  Will push on and let you know how it goes.

          Have a great day and thanks again

          Alan

          runnerclay


          Consistently Slow

            Jimmy

            Thanks for the reminder on pace wizard. I will you it for Albany to pace a friend next weekend.

            Run until the trail runs out.

             SCHEDULE 2016--

             The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

            unsolicited chatter

            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

              well I don't know how reliable the chart is, I'm an outlier with my HR and consequently the MAF pace chart doesn't work for me. my 180-age MAF pace does not neatly translate into the predicted 5K time, my 5K time is much faster.

               

              if you're not really an outlier with how your HR behaves the chart may be a pretty good ballpark for you.

               

               

              comments on jimmyb's suggestions of racing by HR:

               

              - in warm weather the HR you can maintain may be significantly higher than in cold weather, adjust HR plan accordingly.

              - the kind of training you do in the weeks before the race can also affect the racing HR.

              - control by HR doesn't mean it will force you to slow your pace, sometimes it can even make you push the pace more than you thought you could, with great PR as the result.

              - I find that running races by feel and using HR only as one of the many controls available works best.

               

              the main tools to help with racing strategy are then:

              - running by feel (you will get this from experience)

              - going by pace (taking into account your current fitness, the weather, the course etc.)

              - checking with HRM. I only set limits and don't stress over specific heart rates otherwise, just avoid going beyond the ceiling, or below what's a reasonable HR/effort.

               

              a specific strategy I've successfully applied:

              - start race by calculated pace for the first couple of miles - taking into account circumstances, weather etc -, don't give a shit about what the HRM shows, don't care about adrenaline affecting HR and by the nature of how heart rate stuff works there is a delay anyway in responding to the fast race pace. I also don't try to run by feel, the racing environment makes a fast pace feel easier than it actually is and there is a delay in feedback here too.

              - after the first couple of miles (or first half of a mile for 5K), switch to run by feel and check HR periodically, don't go over a specific limit until halfway. keep pace if it all feels OK, otherwise adjust. adjust to circumstances too.

              - after halfway, for races of 5K-10K-21K, forget about HR limits and just try to maintain pacing, avoid slowing down. do check HR still at times to make sure it doesn't drop too low. helps with maintaining effort Wink for marathon race, HR limits still seem to matter up to 30K or so.

              - last part of race, just push as hard as you can, HR doesn't matter anymore, nothing matters anymore.

               

              well I hope it helps

              runnerclay


              Consistently Slow

                well I don't know how reliable the chart is, I'm an outlier with my HR and consequently the MAF pace chart doesn't work for me. my 180-age MAF pace does not neatly translate into the predicted 5K time, my 5K time is much faster.

                 

                if you're not really an outlier with how your HR behaves the chart may be a pretty good ballpark for you.

                 

                 


                - checking with HRM. I only set limits and don't stress over specific heart rates otherwise, just avoid going beyond the ceiling, or below what's a reasonable HR/effort.

                 

                a specific strategy I've successfully applied:

                - start race by calculated pace for the first couple of miles - taking into account circumstances, weather etc -, don't give a shit about what the HRM shows, don't care about adrenaline affecting HR and by the nature of how heart rate stuff works there is a delay anyway in responding to the fast race pace. I also don't try to run by feel, the racing environment makes a fast pace feel easier than it actually is and there is a delay in feedback here too.

                - after the first couple of miles (or first half of a mile for 5K), switch to run by feel and check HR periodically, don't go over a specific limit until halfway. keep pace if it all feels OK, otherwise adjust. adjust to circumstances too.

                - after halfway, for races of 5K-10K-21K, forget about HR limits and just try to maintain pacing, avoid slowing down. do check HR still at times to make sure it doesn't drop too low. helps with maintaining effort Wink for marathon race, HR limits still seem to matter up to 30K or so.

                - last part of race, just push as hard as you can, HR doesn't matter anymore, nothing matters anymore.

                 

                well I hope it helps

                +1. I am always surprised by the amount of   good knowledge there is in this group. Most of this stuff I(we) take for granted. Keep passing it forward.

                Run until the trail runs out.

                 SCHEDULE 2016--

                 The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                unsolicited chatter

                http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                alanwyley


                  Thanks a million for this, I agree, I can't get over the amount of knowledge, this is a really great forum.  And it's nice to see even experienced runners get reminded of stuff from these type of posts.

                  Thanks a mill

                  Alan

                  ps: As an Irish runner we almost never have to worry about running in warm weather!!!! ;-)