Low HR Training

12

So what is my max heart rate? (Read 895 times)

    Okay, I started reading about heart rate training back in December and the first article I read was Mark Allens.  I read some more and got a heart rate monitor for Christmas and have been using it since then.

     

    When I first got my monitor I did some haphazard interval training based on some of the articles I'd read trying to get my max heart rate.  I did some intervals by themselves and hit a 187 max and then did some sprints after a 5K training run and hit 188.  I've since hit 189 during a race and 190 during a race so I've just adjusted my max up each time I hit a new one.

     

    During my half marathon this past weekend everything went VERY smoothly and the weather was perfect and my heart rate was great through the first 10 miles to the point that I really pushed it in the last 3 miles with big negative splits and my last mile was faster than I'd run in any race or training session yet this year.  My monitor ended up with a peak heart rate of 194 at the finish.  I don't think it was a error as I had several 190+ readings right there toward the end of the race and the 194 reading was pretty much right as I crossed the finish line at pretty close to a sprint for me.

     

    On several of my other threads the discussion comes up as to how I calculated my max heart rate and all of the articles I read pretty much just said that the highest number you get on your monitor is your max heart rate.  One person mentioned that you really can't get your max heart rate and that you should add 5 beats to the max number that you get.  I'm not trying to inflate my max heart rate, but don't want to set it too low either.

     

    I'm still not sure where I'm going exactly on my heart rate training, but there is no doubt to me that logging easy miles is translating to being in better shape with less risk of injury and somehow especially for a newer runner like me it translates into faster race times.  I guess I don't even need my max heart rate for my MAF number, but I would still like to know as I'm not 100% sure I'm going to switch to the MAF number for training yet. 

     

    I've been using the HRR numbers to base my zones on, but may start switching over to just a flat percent of maximum heart rate based on some other input on posts that I've made and the fact that my resting heart rate is getting lower and lower and I'm not doing a good job of adjusting my calculations on a regular basis for that.

     

    Oh well, a very long winded post for what I think is an easy question.  What's my maximum heart rate?  I'm planning on moving it up to 194.

    Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

    jimmyb


      Usually you'll find your highest readings at the end of a race.  It's at least 194. Close enough. Probably won't be able to get it much higher.

      Log

        My goal is to never find out what my maximum HR is....

        It's much more enjoyable.

         

        But, as you have provided us through your post and as JimmyB also points out.... it's at least 194.

        2014 Goals:

        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

         

          Okay, thanks for the replies.

           

          When it all comes down to it, my numbers are going to all be pretty close. 

           

          My MAF is 141 if I give myself +5 credit for 1 year injury free running.  (Just lost 1 beat a week ago because of my birthday)

           

          If my max HR is 194 then 75% would be 146. 

           

          I've been training at a target of  70% of my HRR which I had calculated at 149 for the last 4 months.

           

          I might just use both my % of Max and my MAF and set my target at 146 max and 141 avg and call it good.  Or maybe I'll take the average of the two and go with 143 or 144.  That is still going to take slowing down some from where I've been training though.  I've gotten up to around a 10:15 pace at 149 HR and even closer to 10:00 a few times on some cooler mornings.  This will probably drop me back down somewhere in the 10:30 - 10:45 range on a normal morning for me, this summer it might take slowing down into the 11:00 range though.

           

          I'm not sure if I will throw in any speedwork at all, but I plan on running a few club races so that might be enough anyway.  If I do any speedwork I was thinking it would only be once every couple weeks especially during the summer, and then it will be more along the lines of short intervals and technical stuff rather than long tempo runs or anything like that.

           

          There is no doubt that running at a comfortable pace has been MUCH more enjoyable for me than the way I started out where I was gasping for air when I finished a 2 mile jog.

          Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

          Shondek


            Hi Npaden could you clarify how you got your maf figure going by the criteria below:

             

             

            c. If you have been training consistently (at least four times weekly) for up to two years without any of the problems just mentioned, keep the number (180–age) the same.
             d. If you have been training for more than two years without any of the problems listed above, and have made progress in competition without injury, add 5.

              Because the article I read had pretty much the same description but said less than one year keep it the same and add 5 for 1 to 3 years.

              Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                Because the article I read had pretty much the same description but said less than one year keep it the same and add 5 for 1 to 3 years.

                 

                So are we to assume that you were running much earlier then your log shows? That could very well be the case, but your log shows about 6-7 months to date.

                 

                You also do not have to drop a beat every year as you get older. If you are not regressing, becoming injured or having more health issues, you can keep the same HR for a couple years.

                 

                I would suggest getting one of Maffetones books and reading it if you want to try his approach. Just because an article on the internet says something, doesn't mean the author did not provide some misinformation.

                 

                MTA:

                 

                I tried to mention this in another thread but honestly, I don't think you were ready to hear it yet. The toughest part of trying the MAF method is putting your pride and machoism aside and allow yourself to run as slow as necessary to not go over the MAF HR number. At times that means you may have to walk some to get your HR under control again, especially up hills. Its HARD to do at first, but gets easier over time and as your base grows, the walks stretches will lessen and maybe even stop.

                 

                When people around town see me out running at my slow pace, they assume that I'm just plan old SLOW. Then a local 5k race is run and I beat those same people, they can't figure out how that can be. Its easy to explain, but tough for them to grasp. I can run a 5k 3-4 minutes per mile faster then I run a MAF workout. There are others here that can cut their 5k time in half compared to their MAF workouts.

                 

                I've given Maffetones book to some friends that seemed interested in the MAF HR training method, but none of them has adopted it. They just could not get themselves to slow down. It seems to me that reading your post, you are still at that point, but getting closer to giving it a try. I say that because you still want to move the HR ceiling up when you talk about averaging two methods to give you a 143-144 HR. Why not give your actual MAF HR a try for a few months now that you are going to run less over the summer and see what happens?

                 

                The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                 

                2014 Goals:

                 

                Stay healthy

                Enjoy life

                 

                  Nope.  I ran a little bit off and on before that, but started officially running in May of 2011.  May to April makes a year the way I've always calculated it, maybe I'm wrong on that too though.

                   

                  I didn't realize that everything relating to heart rate training was controversial.  Silly me I googled, "calculating your maf" and read the first article that popped up.  http://www.trimycoach.com/articles/heart_rate_training.html

                   

                  Here's the chart from that site:

                   

                  How to calculate YOUR Maf heart-rate:

                  180 minus your age……..then: (fall into ONE category, only)

                  -subtract 10bpm if you’ve had a major illness in the past year

                  -subtract 5bpm id you’re inactive

                  -add 0 if exercise for up to a year w/ no illness

                  -add 5bpm for training for 1-3 years and making measured progress

                  -add 5 to 10bpm if you’ve been training and racing very competitively in your age-group.

                   

                  I guess you are right though, it was hard for me to slow down to a 149 heart rate for training back when I first got my HR monitor, and even that requires me to still walk up some of the steeper hills now.  To drop down to 141 would slow me back down around where I was when I first got my heart rate monitor back in December, and I think I can maybe live with that, but to drop down to 136 seems almost unthinkable.  I would probably average somewhere around 11:30 or 12:00 per mile.

                   

                  I just can't get my head around that my MAF would be the same number if I have a max heart rate of 194 as someone else who was the same age and had a heart rate of 170.  At 136 that would be 70% of my max HR and nearly 80% of their max HR.  Seems to me that can't be the same effort level for both of us.  That 170 isn't way far off, according to the charts the average heart rate for my age should be 176.

                   

                  I do know that building a base and running easy miles works.  No doubt about it.  I guess what I don't know if running at MAF, 75% of Max HR, 70% of HRR, or just ditching the monitor and running at an easy conversational pace is going to be most effective at doing that. 

                   

                  You are right though, this summer would be the perfect time to try it.  After my little local race next Saturday I really have no plans at all for any races for a while after that.  I had thought about a 10 miler coming up the first of July, but I'm sure I could skip that if I needed to.

                  Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                  Shondek


                    It appears a lot of people dont understand that the whole point of doing maf  is to run fast  in races not in training.I think many runners out there are motivated by how they appear as if they are on some kind of running stage and all other runners are supposed to stop and watch.We dont care how slow or fast others run.Take as long as it take to realise your full potential ,then race.That way you can avoid mediocrity 

                       

                      I guess you are right though, it was hard for me to slow down to a 149 heart rate for training back when I first got my HR monitor, and even that requires me to still walk up some of the steeper hills now.  To drop down to 141 would slow me back down around where I was when I first got my heart rate monitor back in December, and I think I can maybe live with that, but to drop down to 136 seems almost unthinkable.  I would probably average somewhere around 11:30 or 12:00 per mile.

                       

                       

                      I think you just proved my point.

                       

                      I ran 3 miles over my lunch break today. My MAF is 140. Todays run had an average HR of 137 with a max of 145 which was on a hill. I use 145 as a point to begin walking as it would be MAF+5. My ave. pace was 11:06.

                       

                      As Shndek posted, its about being fast when it counts. The only time it counts is when you're racing. Daily run pace doesn't mean squat when it comes to racing fast. Like I posted before, I'm at least 4 minutes per mile faster during  5k race and 3 minutes per mile faster for a HM then I actually ran today at MAF.

                       

                      The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                       

                      2014 Goals:

                       

                      Stay healthy

                      Enjoy life

                       

                        Okay, baby steps.  I was going to try to drop down to 145 avg HR on my easy runs but failed this morning.

                         

                        Started out okay, but lost it on the hills and didn't recover.  Ended up with a 148 avg but hit 164 in there going slow up a hill and dropped all the way down to 122 not running fast enough down a hill.  It is so hard to adjust your pace when you get in the hills.  I'm walking up the big hills, but I guess I should walk up some of the smaller ones and start walking quicker at the botom of the hill.

                         

                        I still haven't figured out how to upload my heart rate stuff on my log here, but I opened up my activity sharing on runkeeper so anyone can see if anyone wants to look at it an see if they can give me some advice.  The pauses were just errors on my phone accidently pausing and having to restart therm.

                         

                        http://runkeeper.com/user/npaden/activity/85969671

                         

                        I ended up with a 10:59 avg pace because I cheated and ran a little faster at the very end.  I'm not really concerned about people seeing me running slow, I run on country roads where sometimes I only see a few people on the entire run and they all think I'm crazy for just being out there running.  It is just hard to run much slower than that.  If I throw in walking my heart rate drops down really fast and it ends up bouncing all over the place. 

                         

                        One thing I'm wondering is if I'm still recovering from my half marathon race last Saturday and that is my my pace was so slow this morning.  I had been getting closer to 10:10 or 10:15 pace at 149 avg heart rate and even better than that sometimes just before my race.  It was a little warm this morning but not bad at all compared to what it will be like the rest of the summer.

                         

                        Oh well, lot's of chores to work on that I had let slack while I was getting ready for my race.  That is for sure one very good thing about easy runs, I feel great when I'm done with them and it probably helps me when I have a lot of physical chores to get done like mowing the yard and things like that.  When I was first starting running I would come in and lay on the floor in the coolest room on the house with a fan blowing on me and just lay around and be exhausted the rest of the day.  And that was when I was running 6 miles at an 11:00 pace.  That was before I got a heart rate monitor, but I bet I was averaging about what I did on my race last week.  There is no doubt I'm in way better shape and I want to get better, it's just taking me a while to get my head around all this.

                         

                        Thanks for all the input and advice.  I am reading and listening, I guess I'm just a slow learner!

                         

                        Thanks, Nathan

                        Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                          I think you just proved my point.

                           

                          I ran 3 miles over my lunch break today. My MAF is 140. Todays run had an average HR of 137 with a max of 145 which was on a hill. I use 145 as a point to begin walking as it would be MAF+5. My ave. pace was 11:06.

                           

                          As Shndek posted, its about being fast when it counts. The only time it counts is when you're racing. Daily run pace doesn't mean squat when it comes to racing fast. Like I posted before, I'm at least 4 minutes per mile faster during  5k race and 3 minutes per mile faster for a HM then I actually ran today at MAF.

                           

                          I guess I need to just throw out my pace and not worry about it at all.

                           

                          Is there a trick or technique for running slow?  After this mornings run I think I may have may have to drop down slower than 12:00 if I really wanted to hit my unadjusted MAF which would be 136.  Much slower than 12:00 and it would be more of a brisk walk than a jog.  Do you alternate jogging a few seconds then walking a few seconds to stay in the zone you are wanting or do you just alter your running stride and get it that slow? 

                          Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                            The other thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is what everyone on here is probably trying to figure out as well.

                             

                            I'm sure MAF, HADD, Lyric, etc., etc., all work well for runners like me starting out.  You really don't even need a heart rate monitor to just run easy and build a base and that will do wonders starting out.

                             

                            I'm just not sure which to try to follow, or if it really even matters that much. 

                             

                            Burnt Toast, does your MAF number fall in line with 75% of your Max Heart rate?  If I go with my unadjusted MAF of 136 that is quite a bit different than my 75% of Max number which is 145.

                            Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                            Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                              The other thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is what everyone on here is probably trying to figure out as well.

                               

                              I'm sure MAF, HADD, Lyric, etc., etc., all work well for runners like me starting out.  You really don't even need a heart rate monitor to just run easy and build a base and that will do wonders starting out.

                               

                              I'm just not sure which to try to follow, or if it really even matters that much. 

                               

                              Burnt Toast, does your MAF number fall in line with 75% of your Max Heart rate?  If I go with my unadjusted MAF of 136 that is quite a bit different than my 75% of Max number which is 145.

                               

                              I've seen a Max HR at the end of an all out sprint 5k race early on in my running adventure of 203. The more "in-shape" I become, the more difficult it is to get that high. I'm now figuring a 198 MaxHR. When I recorded the 203, my resting HR was about 60ish. Its now about 46. Does that have something to do with the lower MaxHR I can achieve now? Not sure. Maybe I just can't push myself that hard anymore.

                               

                              My MAF is 140. I've never added any extra beats to it and also haven't adjust down as I got older. It still seems to be working out, but the next couple months will tell me if I should lower it. I use 198 as my MaxHR and also figured my LT HR to be 179. 75% of MaxHR would give me 148-149 so my MAF is about 70% MaxHR. If I use the RHR method its about 62%.

                               

                              I started out much like you. I first started running thinking I was going easy, but I obviously wasn't. If you were not a runner when you were young, you have no idea what easy actually is, at least I didn't. After awhile of being sore and feeling like I was going nowhere, I started reading up on HR training. I bought a Garmin with a HR monitor and started recording my HR. It was definately showing that I was not running easy.

                               

                              I did the 5k race to get my MaxHR and went by the 75% of MaxHR (152) for my easy runs but I was still not able to run as long as I wanted. I found RA and the LHR group. Read the "stickies", asked questions (the same ones you are asking) and tried using the MAF Method. It was tough going. I bought the book, gave it a good reading and forged ahead. It took a couple months, but I eventually started running faster without even realizing it as it always felt the same. My races were really improving the entire time even if my MAF pace was doing little.

                               

                              When I go into a training cycle in prep of a race, I will switch over to a plan based on my LT rate, but I still use the HR monitor with new zones adjust to the LT. I use MAF as a recovery type run during those cycles.

                               

                              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                               

                              2014 Goals:

                               

                              Stay healthy

                              Enjoy life

                               

                              Shondek


                                I guess I need to just throw out my pace and not worry about it at all.

                                 

                                Is there a trick or technique for running slow?  After this mornings run I think I may have may have to drop down slower than 12:00 if I really wanted to hit my unadjusted MAF which would be 136.  Much slower than 12:00 and it would be more of a brisk walk than a jog.  Do you alternate jogging a few seconds then walking a few seconds to stay in the zone you are wanting or do you just alter your running stride and get it that slow? 

                                 It's not about running slow ..Mark Allen ran at 5-30 at maf that's not slow..I sometimes hit 11min at maf-10 ..that's fast compared to what I would have been doing 6 months ago.This is the trick for running fast.

                                I know what you're going through it's only now I've stopped being paranoid about speed etc.Just think about training in the zones if you need to walk your going to fast.It's the equivalent of going out for a run for the very first time.Do you remember that run,every hill you had to stop and walk.

                                 

                                My goal is to do a negative split in all my runs so that takes my mind off what my pace is,I'm just thinking what heart rate do I need to be at to achieve that goal,and its a great feeling to know that every preceding mile hasn't impeded on you physiologically If you think  running under maf is difficult try and get a negative split.

                                12