Low HR Training

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In search of a HM training plan with HR zones (Read 839 times)


Consistently Slow

    What do you do after your run? Take the extra five minutes. 32 instead of 30 minutes.Slow den. It will paid dividends.Check my log from four months back. I was running 14:00 miles on a regular bases.My last 10k time was 47:54.7:43 pace.

    Run until the trail runs out.

    2014***1500 miles

    50 miler 13:26:18

    Race Less Train More

     

    Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

    "The Marble in The Groove"

     

    unsolicited chatter

    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

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      I've noticed that my body is in fact hurting more when I jog slower.  My back is especially killing me - even after seeing the chiropractor 3 days a week. Ive been cranky about it for the last couple of days. Finally better today though - Ive been wondering if this could be the cause of it since it seems to peak a few hours after my "run".  I'll have to keep an eye on that

       

      Also, this is EXACTLY the way I feel about the whole MAF vs. LHR thing.  YOu hit the nail right on the head.  To keep my HR at or below my MAF of 150, I can seriously only jog for about 20 seconds maybe 3x during the whole process. Then my HR shoots right past 150 and starts alarming. As soon as it hits 145 I stop running and go back to walking because I know its still going to rise a few more beats before coming back down.  I don't mind run/walking, but when my intended workout for day leaves me just doing a fast walk, I no longer feel like a "runner"  I just feel like I wasted my time.  Hence my frustration.

       

       MTA: I didnt even need to run this slow when I started C25K, so I feel even less like a runner now, 4 years later

       

      I don't understand why I can't make similar progress to what you made in your early stages by just keeping my HR at approx 165. I think that would be much more tolerable mentally for me and better for my body.  I went back to a MAF run today and still felt like I shouldve done more. I followed the other plan, and only went for 31:30 mins, but if that time included my 15:00 warm-up, that left me only doing a real workout for 16:30! I can almost hear everyone scoffing at that., including myself.

      I just feel like I can do more than what "the plans" are suggesting

       

       

      yes you do have to pay extra attention to running style when running slower. this can be harder than at a faster pace.  I did have the back problem myself in and after my first 2-hour MAF run and that was when I realized I did not pay enough attention to running form. I was slouching at a pace that was slow enough to have me leaning forward from the waist and this was stressing my low back muscles, and they were tight and painful for about 2 days after that run. after that I started paying attention to always keep myself upright while running. it is possible to run slow with better form than that.

       

      as for slowing down at 145, if your target HR is 150, you can just go until it hits 150, those few secs it goes above 150 don't matter. you do not need to stop right at 145.

       

      as for your question as to why not do higher HR runs to progress, yes it is possible to progress that way. not infinitely as you could see in my case with the setback, but yes progress for a few months is possible before you may have to cut back a bit.

       

      so yes the answer is you may have a chance that way too. it also depends on training schedule and training goals.

       

      e.g. doing some higher HR runs may be a better chance for improvement if you can only do e.g. 3 runs a week. 3 runs a week is not very stimulating if only doing MAF runs. at the same time, 5 higher HR "anaerobic" runs may be too much. obviously overall training load and enough rest is important.

       

      but the main point is that everyone is individual and even one person can be in different stages of training, body may respond better to base build at one point than at another point. same true for speedwork or other higher HR runs.

       

      you really have to listen to your body to know what's good for you. what's working, what's affecting you in a bad way. and the mental side of training is important too e.g. don't do all your training in a frustrated state. that's just extra stress and takes the fun out of it.

       

      what you need to make sure about is avoid injury. you may have to start out really low mileage and go on to slightly higher mileage when your body adjusted i.e. no pains, aches.

       

      for some people only MAF HR is where they can progress initially as a beginner, without injury. I have such a friend. but not everyone is like that. this is why I said it is individual what works as a beginner (or when restarting running).

       

      if you see injury coming up this can be a useful lead in knowing what is too much and what is not. provided you stop in time, to avoid full blown injury.

       

      the other useful lead is the HRM, do paces improve or not or even get worse, at some HR zone? MAF and other HR zones.

       

      and yeah, C25K is a nice beginner program (or for those who are just restarting running), when I started out with the run-walk, I was following such a program.

         

        I don't understand why I can't make similar progress to what you made in your early stages by just keeping my HR at approx 165. I think that would be much more tolerable mentally for me and better for my body.  I went back to a MAF run today and still felt like I shouldve done more. I followed the other plan, and only went for 31:30 mins, but if that time included my 15:00 warm-up, that left me only doing a real workout for 16:30! I can almost hear everyone scoffing at that., including myself.

        I just feel like I can do more than what "the plans" are suggesting

         

         

        another post Smile let me ask, how did you pick 165 as a possible target HR? I'm curious. is this the lowest HR where you can still run, perhaos slow but feels more like jogging and not walking? or did you pick this another way?

         

        16mins of running at MAF is truly not a lot, though if that's the most you can take without getting injured it is a start. if you can take more without getting injured or getting other setback, then you can run longer or faster.

         

        the other thing you can play with is frequency, say if you do this 6 times a week it would probably have you improving within 1-2 weeks (I'm not saying drastic improvement but you could see something). provided you tolerate the load. (don't try to run 6 times a week above MAF though!)

           Hey I'm really new at this also. It really does put alot more stress on your body. Your taking a unnaturally short slide and probably bouncing alot. I actually feel it in my achilies and ankles myself. It will probably take a bit for your body to adjust, just like anything else.(I tell myself that anyways) .

           

           I can also understand your frustration at running so slow. I'm running about the same as you. Two miles takes me 20 minutes and 3 took me 41.30. I didn't know if I should be excited at running for 41 minutes or be disgusted that I only ran 3 miles in that time. I keep reminding myself that I'm running at the bottom of the aerobic zone and it's what I should expect. I can see how it would be easy to keep adding miles with time although I feel like I'm in a chain gang running with shackles on.

           

           For myself I do plan to stick with it and see if I can get to a point where my stride lengthens out so running becomes more smoother and I stop looking like I'm running in the Special Olympics.

           

           

          ah yeah, my first MAF run, it put a bit of a load on achilles. so I quickly abandoned trying to keep the stride frequency as high as possible and simply let it be at 150-160 steps per minute. that was better for achilles for some reason, it stopped complaining right away. not sure what the stride frequency was afterwards in later runs as I stopped counting the steps.

           

          that pace was 15min/mile, and I just could not keep stride freq. high without it feeling completely unnatural. 150-160 felt more natural motion.

           

          I can do 180+ frequency at a 13min/mile pace though, without effort. a lot of difference between 13 and 15 really.

           

          let me also note that when I started MAF runs, I also noticed that my leg muscles simply could not go long. 1 hour okay, but not longer. I can't really explain that feeling in the legs. kind of like they got "numb". it took about 2-3 weeks before I got  to the point where it felt like I could go on forever muscle-wise at this HR (180-age, either my MAF or not, so I call it 180-age HR).

           

          oh and don't worry about your 41min 3miles. if you do it often enough it should improve. assuming the chosen training HR is not too low/high etc etc.. was the 20min 2miles done without warmup? or just a big HR drift even after warmup?

          Dimat


            ah yeah, my first MAF run, it put a bit of a load on achilles. so I quickly abandoned trying to keep the stride frequency as high as possible and simply let it be at 150-160 steps per minute. that was better for achilles for some reason, it stopped complaining right away. not sure what the stride frequency was afterwards in later runs as I stopped counting the steps.

             

            that pace was 15min/mile, and I just could not keep stride freq. high without it feeling completely unnatural. 150-160 felt more natural motion.

             

            I can do 180+ frequency at a 13min/mile pace though, without effort. a lot of difference between 13 and 15 really.

             

            let me also note that when I started MAF runs, I also noticed that my leg muscles simply could not go long. 1 hour okay, but not longer. I can't really explain that feeling in the legs. kind of like they got "numb". it took about 2-3 weeks before I got  to the point where it felt like I could go on forever muscle-wise at this HR (180-age, either my MAF or not, so I call it 180-age HR).

             

            oh and don't worry about your 41min 3miles. if you do it often enough it should improve. assuming the chosen training HR is not too low/high etc etc.. was the 20min 2miles done without warmup? or just a big HR drift even after warmup?

             

             I don't actually warm up since basically a slow run would be my warmup and I can't run any slower than I currently am. I am currently running 180-age.

               Funny that you mention drift. I've been noticing that my heart rate just drops (by drop I mean 5or 6 beats and holds there for 30 seconds or so) during my runs and couldn't figure out why since my pace during that time hadn't changed. I finally started to use those times to lengthen my stride awhile until it goes back up. Usually that would be right away but during those times when it drops low it doesn't seem to affect it..

               I don't actually warm up since basically a slow run would be my warmup and I can't run any slower than I currently am. I am currently running 180-age.

                 Funny that you mention drift. I've been noticing that my heart rate just drops (by drop I mean 5or 6 beats and holds there for 30 seconds or so) during my runs and couldn't figure out why since my pace during that time hadn't changed. I finally started to use those times to lengthen my stride awhile until it goes back up. Usually that would be right away but during those times when it drops low it doesn't seem to affect it..

               

               

              supposedly, you should bring HR up to MAF-10 with 10-15min walking then. it isn't a deal breaker for everyone though.

               

              no idea about that drop... maybe the terrain is slightly downwards at those points? or you got a little back wind? etc..

              Dimat


                No it's random. Happens anywhere. I was excited, thought I was getting in better shape. Like I said I just take advantage of it now and increase the length of my stride for awhile until the damn beeping goes off again..

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