Low HR Training

Hadd Test (Read 340 times)
Pammie


posted: 2/20/2008 at 4:19 PM
I'm posting this in a new thread to keep it separate from the MAF tests, as i'm really following the Hadd route than Maffetone (no disrespect)

Been a few years since i've done one so really starting from scratch it is said my Marathon pace could be 168-170 based on my MHR and with training but i am a long way away frrom that at present

Conditions were cold (but you soon warm up) a little foggy and a little wind in the home straight in the 2nd half of the test.

Initial plans were 140 - 150 - 160 - 170 - 180

140 - 14:10- 9:30 pace But HRM wasn't working proper had to readjust on this lap (I had already stop and started once already) managed in the end so will see what the next test is like

150 - 13:16 - 8:54 pace. This translates to my work sessions 2 x 15min @ 150 is around 8:52 pace

160 - 12:32 - 8:24 pace This looks ok (165 is about my average for 5km but way too low hopefully in time i'll get that higher and again this translates near to my 5km pace 8:10 - 8:20)

170 - Holy Moly could not get HR up anywhere near 170 for long enough, it did touch 170 briefly i stopped after 1 lap knowing this would need a lot of work
1 lap (400metres in 1:50 thats 7:23 mile pace)

Self analysis - 7:23 translates to a marathon time of 3:13:35 with training that would give me a place on the elite start LOL (or is it 3:10) anyway that looks good
But of course i am along way to go

At present 160 avg pace would give me a GFA marathon time with some to spare, but i doubt i'm there yer. Even 140 and 150 would give me a PR.
posted: 2/20/2008 at 4:39 PM
Quote from Pammie on 2/20/2008 at 4:19 PM:
I'm posting this in a new thread to keep it separate from the MAF tests, as i'm really following the Hadd route than Maffetone (no disrespect)

Been a few years since i've done one so really starting from scratch it is said my Marathon pace could be 168-170 based on my MHR and with training but i am a long way away frrom that at present

Conditions were cold (but you soon warm up) a little foggy and a little wind in the home straight in the 2nd half of the test.

Initial plans were 140 - 150 - 160 - 170 - 180

140 - 14:10- 9:30 pace But HRM wasn't working proper had to readjust on this lap (I had already stop and started once already) managed in the end so will see what the next test is like

150 - 13:16 - 8:54 pace. This translates to my work sessions 2 x 15min @ 150 is around 8:52 pace

160 - 12:32 - 8:24 pace This looks ok (165 is about my average for 5km but way too low hopefully in time i'll get that higher and again this translates near to my 5km pace 8:10 - 8:20)

170 - Holy Moly could not get HR up anywhere near 170 for long enough, it did touch 170 briefly i stopped after 1 lap knowing this would need a lot of work
1 lap (400metres in 1:50 thats 7:23 mile pace)

Self analysis - 7:23 translates to a marathon time of 3:13:35 with training that would give me a place on the elite start LOL (or is it 3:10) anyway that looks good
But of course i am along way to go

At present 160 avg pace would give me a GFA marathon time with some to spare, but i doubt i'm there yer. Even 140 and 150 would give me a PR.


I think your Hadd test heartrates are too high. Below are the exerpts from the Hadd article. Your max level should be 5 beats higher than your best marathon HR. I am thinking you fall into the 183 HRmax zone based on what you wrote, so your test should be 130-140-150-160-170.

"Once Joe got to 50mpw, I told him to perform the following mini-test (he knew the protocol). Go
to a track on a windless day, as rested as if for a race, and do the following:
Run 2400m at a steady 140 HR (Stop 90 secs and record time)
Run 2400m at a steady 150 HR (Stop 90 secs and record time)
Run 2400m at a steady 160 HR (Stop 90 secs and record time)
Run 2400m at a steady 170 HR (Stop 90 secs and record time)
Run 2400m at a steady 180 HR (Stop 90 secs and record time)
At all times, adjust the running pace to maintain a stable HR. On each new stage slowly edge the
HR up (ie: it is ok if the HR takes the first 600-800m to reach target level), then simply maintain
HR. DO NOT start fast and have to slow to maintain target HR. "

"Perform a 2400m test on yourself (from easy training pace to a max of 5bpm higher than your
particular HRmarathon- see below).. Once again ensuring you are fit, fresh, rested as if for an
important race and all possible variables (wind, etc) are controlled as much as possible. Since
you are going to conduct this 2400m test again and again, you must try and ensure that, as much
as possible, all tests are done under near identical conditions (or else you start wondering such
thoughts as, "am I faster because it was less windy this time?"). Do all you can to control against
such doubts having to occur (ie: don’t test in gale force winds)."

"b) If you have a GOOD relationship, and your HRmax is like Joe’s (193+) then your best
marathon race HR will be 175 ±. If you do the 2400m test, you should find that your pace at 170
HR is very close to best marathon pace (although HR in the race might be 175+). AND you
should feel that running at 170 HR is no big deal. You can maintain it comfortably for a long
time without even thinking."

Here's the full article:

http://www.counterpartcoaching.com/hadd.pdf
Pammie


posted: 2/20/2008 at 5:24 PM
Thanks for your reply there i have read the Hadd article before but i admit that i haven't read it in depth for a while.
I was thinking today after the test maybe next time i should start at 130, i know i can't run that long at 170 and less even at 180 though i once could (lost a lot of fitness last year so going back to basics

As it goes my max is 191, seen at the end of short 5kms and have come close to that at the end of some other races where i wanted to be sick so i know its pretty much right.
posted: 2/20/2008 at 5:38 PM
So, your 140-150-160-170-180 is not too far off if your max is 191.

Maybe 135-145-155-165-175 for you, with the 165 being the marathon pace indicator, might work the best.

One thing I did incorrectly in my Hadd test was to increase my HR quickly to the target HR and average that target HR.

At all times, adjust the running pace to maintain a stable HR. On each new stage slowly edge the
HR up (ie: it is ok if the HR takes the first 600-800m to reach target level), then simply maintain
HR. DO NOT start fast and have to slow to maintain target HR. "
Pammie


posted: 2/20/2008 at 5:41 PM
Quote from Ace8 on 2/20/2008 at 5:38 PM:
So, your 140-150-160-170-180 is not too far off if your max is 191.

Maybe 135-145-155-165-175 for you, with the 165 being the marathon pace indicator, might work the best"



Now theres a thought will try that next time
posted: 12/22/2009 at 11:07 AM
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, but I was just wondering about 2 things with the Hadd test.
1. From what I've read, the 2400 m length was picked so  the famous "Joe" would run for 8 minutes.
For us mere mortals, where 8 min miles are tough,  would a mile suffice?
2. Are the 5 HR settings fixed percentages of HR max (or HRReserve ?)

I'm pretty new to all this low HR training, at the moment I'm following Maffetone, but thinking of experimenting with Hadd after a period of Maffetone base.
jimmyb


posted: 12/22/2009 at 5:22 PM
modified: 12/22/2009 at 5:24 PM

Hey Sean,

 

 

The idea of that test is to test how well you are improving at increments of 10 bpm, with the main focus on that final tier that is just above your marathon HR, which is where your lactate threshold usually resides if you are well-trained. If that tier is improving, and you are feeling comfortable, then that is a good sign. If your LT is in bad shape, then that level will feel very uncomfortable. It might be wise to run them by time instead of by 2400m. Take a look at Joe's times for each level, and try to mirror the time instead of the length.

 

Some believe that the whole building game that Hadd lays out is not necessary and that a 20-40 minute weekly lactate threshold tempo run (starting with 20 min) at 88-90% of MHR, or somewhere around 15k to half marathon pace, is all you need, in addition to everyday aerobic training. Some will alternate the LT run with cruise intervals every other week. You can measure your LT progress in those weekly runs.

 

 

--Jimmy

 

 
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