Low HR Training

Maff test (Read 2966 times)

Firemeboy


    Hi, all. I'm new to the site, and have been running a low HR for a few months. I find I can't run more than 40-50 steps before my HR spikes above the recommended 139. I'm seeing progress, slowly but surely. Any tips or recommendations are appreciated.

     

    <colgroup><col width="100" /></colgroup>
    7/13/2014
    13:04
    13:30
    13:57
    14:16
    14:35

     

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    8/4/2014
    12:14
    13:06
    13:21
    13:57
    13:59

     

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    9/8/2014
    11:51
    12:04
    12:28
    12:39
    12:44
    Docket_Rocket


      Hey, guys.

       

      As you know, I started training after the DNF at the SF Marathon after months of post surgery recovery, stress, and a bit of overtraining.  Did my first MAF test before I started my new training cycle and results were as follows:

       

      I consider my Mile 2 the MAF mile since my first mile and some stretching was my warmup.  I did not have time that day for a full 6 miles (1 w/u plus 5 for the test).  90F and 76 dewpoint:

       

      Mile 1 (warmup) : 12:34 (HR 132)

      Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:52 (HR 141)

      Mile 3: 12:05 (HR 144)

      Mile 4: 11:55 (HR 145)

      Mile 5: 12:08 (HR 145)

       

      Now, a month later, I am 4-5 weeks from the Chicago Marathon and training has gone well, with some bouts of asthma here and there.  Also, it was 90F and 77 dewpoint.

       

      Mile 1 (warmup): 12:22 (HR 137)

      Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:42 (HR 142)

      Mile 3: 11:23 (HR 141)

      Mile 4: 11:40 (HR 144)

      Mile 5: 11:43 (HR 145)

      Mile 6: 11:40 (HR 146)

       

      It's nice to see a difference and improvement in such a short time.  It's a small improvement but for me it's huge.

      Damaris

       

      As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

      Fundraising Page

      runnerclay


      Consistently Slow

         

        I am pleased with my progress training this way, but I want to start adding some short Fartleks at 5k pace once a week.  Or, should I go another 4 weeks strictly base building?

         

        Your progress has amazing. I would wait on the speed work until 10 weeks from a race.

        Run until the trail runs out.

         SCHEDULE 2016--

         The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

        unsolicited chatter

        http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        Docket_Rocket


          Hey, guys.

           

          As you know, I started training after the DNF at the SF Marathon after months of post surgery recovery, stress, and a bit of overtraining.  Did my first MAF test before I started my new training cycle and results were as follows:

           

          I consider my Mile 2 the MAF mile since my first mile and some stretching was my warmup.  I did not have time that day for a full 6 miles (1 w/u plus 5 for the test).  90F and 76 dewpoint:

           

          Mile 1 (warmup) : 12:34 (HR 132)

          Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:52 (HR 141)

          Mile 3: 12:05 (HR 144)

          Mile 4: 11:55 (HR 145)

          Mile 5: 12:08 (HR 145)

           

          Now, a month later, I am 4-5 weeks from the Chicago Marathon and training has gone well, with some bouts of asthma here and there.  Also, it was 90F and 77 dewpoint.

           

          Mile 1 (warmup): 12:22 (HR 137)

          Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:42 (HR 142)

          Mile 3: 11:23 (HR 141)

          Mile 4: 11:40 (HR 144)

          Mile 5: 11:43 (HR 145)

          Mile 6: 11:40 (HR 146)

           

          It's nice to see a difference and improvement in such a short time.  It's a small improvement but for me it's huge.

           

          Had my third MAF test earlier this week.  It was 93F (a bit higher than these two tests) but even at that higher temp, I saw improvements:

           

          Mile 1 (warmup): 12:20 (HR 137)

          Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:35 (HR 144)

          Mile 3: 11:31 (HR 147 - Actual MAF)

          Mile 4: 11:35 (HR 147)

          Mile 5: 11:15 (HR 145)

          Mile 6: 11:27 (HR 143)

          Mile 7: 11:45 (HR 144)

           

          As usual, I do not follow the slower miles as my asthma does not make the HR drift like that.  Usually, Mile 4 would be my best mile after the lungs feel better and that is why Miles 5 and 6 are faster.

          Damaris

           

          As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

          Fundraising Page

          Docket_Rocket


             

            Had my third MAF test earlier this week.  It was 93F (a bit higher than these two tests) but even at that higher temp, I saw improvements:

             

            Mile 1 (warmup): 12:20 (HR 137)

            Mile 2 (MAF Mile): 11:35 (HR 144)

            Mile 3: 11:31 (HR 147 - Actual MAF)

            Mile 4: 11:35 (HR 147)

            Mile 5: 11:15 (HR 145)

            Mile 6: 11:27 (HR 143)

            Mile 7: 11:45 (HR 144)

             

            As usual, I do not follow the slower miles as my asthma does not make the HR drift like that.  Usually, Mile 4 would be my best mile after the lungs feel better and that is why Miles 5 and 6 are faster.

             

            Did another MAF test yesterday even though I am not fully recovered from the latest asthma bout.  New MAF Mile at 11:30mm but 146HR (147 would be the actual MAF I am using.  Not bad for being sick in the last two weeks.

            Damaris

             

            As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

            Fundraising Page

            runnerclay


            Consistently Slow

              3 miles. Massage tomorrow.

              Run until the trail runs out.

               SCHEDULE 2016--

               The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

              unsolicited chatter

              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                First MAF test of the year and since I resumed running.  I am not used to controlling my heart rate well so the fluctuation was usually 4-5 beats both directions.

                 

                Probably shouldn't drink water during these three miles, any thought?  Could drinking water explain the pace not drop at all through the three miles?

                 

                I was using 144 as my MAF heart rate, might adjust it later base on my race time correlation.  Did this on a middle school track, 4 laps per "mile", close enough.  Warm up about 1.5 miles.

                 

                  Type   Distance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HR        Notes       
                1 Interval 0.99 mi 11:41.80 29:49.77 11:46 144 148 MAF test first 4 laps
                2 Interval 0.99 mi 11:38.68 41:28.45 11:43 143 148 MAF test middle 4 laps
                3 Interval 0.99 mi 11:40.14 53:08.59 11:45 143 150 MAF test last 4 laps

                  So my MAF test last weekend would suggest that I can run a 5k in 26:00.  I used that as a yardstick and set my goal pace to 8:22 for my 5k this weekend.

                   

                  The result was pleasantly surprising, I could run that pace and did a bit better:

                   

                  GPS measured 2.91 miles, finished in 23:35.91, pace 8:07.

                   

                  The race was a small 5k, 100ish runners, course was on a blacktop trail loop that should be about 1.5 miles.  Runners would do two loops.  I suspect the 5k was short.  But I am not entirely sure since it was a ~1.5 mile loop with lots of twist and turns and tree coverage.

                   

                  What does this has to do with MAF test?  I think the conclusion I am getting here is using 144 as my MAF heart rate is fine, and I could probably try 145.

                   

                  Splits:

                   TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                  1 Interval 1 mi 7:55.02 7:55.02 7:56 173 189  
                  2 Interval 1 mi 8:11.03 16:06.05 8:12 180 187  
                  3 Interval 0.91 mi 7:29.86 23:35.91 8:15 184 188  

                   

                  First MAF test of the year and since I resumed running.  I am not used to controlling my heart rate well so the fluctuation was usually 4-5 beats both directions.

                   

                  Probably shouldn't drink water during these three miles, any thought?  Could drinking water explain the pace not drop at all through the three miles?

                   

                  I was using 144 as my MAF heart rate, might adjust it later base on my race time correlation.  Did this on a middle school track, 4 laps per "mile", close enough.  Warm up about 1.5 miles.

                   

                    Type  Distance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HR        Notes       
                  1 Interval 0.99 mi 11:41.80 29:49.77 11:46 144 148 MAF test first 4 laps
                  2 Interval 0.99 mi 11:38.68 41:28.45 11:43 143 148 MAF test middle 4 laps
                  3 Interval 0.99 mi 11:40.14 53:08.59 11:45 143 150 MAF test last 4 laps
                  runnerclay


                  Consistently Slow

                    Congrats. Nice finish time especially with your low mileage. Maff appears to be working!

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                     SCHEDULE 2016--

                     The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                      My easy runs are pretty much low-heart-rate training although I usually don't wear a heart rate monitor for those runs, just run by feel.  Only did one tempo run in the last 6 weeks, so I think MAFing was the main factor.  Losing 10 lbs help too.

                       

                      Congrats. Nice finish time especially with your low mileage. Maff appears to be working!

                      Docket_Rocket


                         

                        Did another MAF test yesterday even though I am not fully recovered from the latest asthma bout.  New MAF Mile at 11:30mm but 146HR (147 would be the actual MAF I am using.  Not bad for being sick in the last two weeks.

                         

                         

                        My MAF test for December went well.  The MAF mile was 11:22mm so I still see some progress, even with me being sick for the two weeks and after that hurting my groin.  Next MAF test will be next week and based on what I have seen with my runs, it could be another improvement.

                        Damaris

                         

                        As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                        Fundraising Page

                        PADRunner


                          Maff test for today was a failure. Some reason I could not keep my HR down and had to walk frequently. First day out after 4 days on the TM and it  was colder but not to bad really. Times are definitely no going the right way.

                           

                          <colgroup><col width="73" /><col width="73" /><col width="38" /><col width="31" /><col width="31" /><col width="73" /><col width="27" /><col width="31" /><col width="31" /><col width="73" /><col width="27" /></colgroup>
                          Date 12/4/2014       12/7/2014       1/3/2015  
                          Time 5:00:00 AM       6:47:00 AM       7:33:00 AM  
                          Location Mike Lewis       Mike Lewis       Mike Lewis  
                          Temp 58       48       39  
                          MAF Target 132       132       132  
                            Pace HR     Pace HR     Pace HR
                          Mile 1 14:11 125   1 12:19 116   1 12:26 128
                          Mile 2 13:09 132   2 13:57 120   2 13:42 131
                          Mile 3 14:18 133   3 13:30 129   3 14:18 130
                          Mile 4 13:57 132   4 14:24 122   4 13:48 131
                          Mile 5 14:06 132   5 13:03 127   5 13:34 131
                          Avg 13:56     6 14:27 126   6 14:24 130
                          Avg HR   130.8   7 12:54 126   7 14:03 132
                          Max   143   8 13:18 128   8 15:54 129
                                  9 14:24 125   9 13:27 135
                                  10 12:51 129   Avg 13:57 130
                                  Avg 13:30 124   Max 145  
                                  Max   136        

                            PADRunner, I am curious as to how long have you been doing MAF training this latest round?  Did you gain any weight from 12/7/2014 to 1/3/2015?  I know I did, over the holidays, due to not having to work and slept a lot, I gained 5 lbs.

                             

                            For MAF test though, you probably don't need to run so many miles.  Usually 1 mile or so for warm up then 5 miles MAF would be enough.  You mostly look at the first mile time anyway.  I usually just do 1 mile warm up and 3 miles MAF test.

                             

                            Maff test for today was a failure. Some reason I could not keep my HR down and had to walk frequently. First day out after 4 days on the TM and it  was colder but not to bad really. Times are definitely no going the right way.

                             

                            Date 12/4/2014       12/7/2014       1/3/2015  
                            Time 5:00:00 AM       6:47:00 AM       7:33:00 AM  
                            Location Mike Lewis       Mike Lewis       Mike Lewis  
                            Temp 58       48       39  
                            MAF Target 132       132       132  
                              Pace HR     Pace HR     Pace HR
                            Mile 1 14:11 125   1 12:19 116   1 12:26 128
                            Mile 2 13:09 132   2 13:57 120   2 13:42 131
                            Mile 3 14:18 133   3 13:30 129   3 14:18 130
                            Mile 4 13:57 132   4 14:24 122   4 13:48 131
                            Mile 5 14:06 132   5 13:03 127   5 13:34 131
                            Avg 13:56     6 14:27 126   6 14:24 130
                            Avg HR   130.8   7 12:54 126   7 14:03 132
                            Max   143   8 13:18 128   8 15:54 129
                                    9 14:24 125   9 13:27 135
                                    10 12:51 129   Avg 13:57 130
                                    Avg 13:30 124   Max 145  
                                    Max   136        
                            PADRunner


                              PADRunner, I am curious as to how long have you been doing MAF training this latest round?  Did you gain any weight from 12/7/2014 to 1/3/2015?  I know I did, over the holidays, due to not having to work and slept a lot, I gained 5 lbs.

                               

                              For MAF test though, you probably don't need to run so many miles.  Usually 1 mile or so for warm up then 5 miles MAF would be enough.  You mostly look at the first mile time anyway.  I usually just do 1 mile warm up and 3 miles MAF test.

                               

                               

                              I started a little over a month ago. I've  been running for about 3 years. No weight gain really, I vary between 115-117 normally.

                               

                              I had 8 scheduled for today anyway.

                                Last MAF test was 12/13/2014.  Today's MAF test:

                                 

                                 TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                                1 Interval 1 mi 12:08.54 12:08.54 12:09 136 154 warm up
                                2 Interval 0.42 mi 5:03.67 17:12.21 12:04 140 143 warm up
                                3 Interval 0.99 mi 11:08.15 28:20.36 11:13 144 147 1st 1600m
                                4 Interval 0.99 mi 11:16.38 39:36.74 11:21 143 147 2nd 1600m
                                5 Interval 0.99 mi 11:00.52 50:37.26 11:05 144 148 3rd 1600m
                                6 Interval 0.99 mi 11:12.50 1:01:49.76 11:17 144 149 4th 1600m

                                 

                                This is 5 weeks apart.  First mile pace improved from 11:46 to 11:13, about half minute, this is great.  I wasn't doing pure low heart rate training during the 5 weeks, have done 5k race, some tempo runs, but general aerobic still improved a bit.

                                 

                                First MAF test of the year and since I resumed running.  I am not used to controlling my heart rate well so the fluctuation was usually 4-5 beats both directions.

                                 

                                Probably shouldn't drink water during these three miles, any thought?  Could drinking water explain the pace not drop at all through the three miles?

                                 

                                I was using 144 as my MAF heart rate, might adjust it later base on my race time correlation.  Did this on a middle school track, 4 laps per "mile", close enough.  Warm up about 1.5 miles.

                                 

                                  Type  Distance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HR        Notes       
                                1 Interval 0.99 mi 11:41.80 29:49.77 11:46 144 148 MAF test first 4 laps
                                2 Interval 0.99 mi 11:38.68 41:28.45 11:43 143 148 MAF test middle 4 laps
                                3 Interval 0.99 mi 11:40.14 53:08.59 11:45 143 150 MAF test last 4 laps