Low HR Training

Maff test (Read 2887 times)

itake8ez


     

    10 weeks without improving means something is likely off... unless it's just summer heat Smile see if by start of september (or whenever it gets cooler for your location) it doesn't improve...

     

    MAF at 131... are you 49 then? or 44 and did you already take the minus 5bpm?

     

    did you ever run any races and if so what average HR and what race times did you get?

     

    what causes the drifts to 140? do you just check the number on the HRM too irregularly?

     

    jimmyb - as always - had some nice suggestions but let me add that maybe the solution is not decreasing but increasing the ceiling HR target. the MAF formula is an approximation but you have to figure it out for yourself if it's correct or if you need to subtract or add a few beats.

     

    I believe the right HR range also depends on your training load... speaking of training l30 oad, you doing 30-40mpw at this slow pace sounds like a terrible lot of time per week. I would suggest decreasing the training time. what was your original training time per week at the 9-10mpm paces before starting MAF training?

     

    Thanks for your response Cmon2.   Yes, I'm 49.  The weather is considerably hotter now in the upper 80's in FL.  My max HR is 185 based on last 5k in march which was 24:20.   Not sure what causes the drift, probably jogging too fast in between my jog/walk.  It shoots up rather quickly, I.e., i'll stop when I see it at 132, and it continues to climb for a bit before it comes down.  Now, I admit I am loading up more on the miles with this training because it allows me to run longer and I have a deep desire to run another marathon so i'm doing what I used to do back 8-10 years ago, albeit a lot slower since there doesn't seem to be any guidelines.   Prior to doing MAF, I hadn't been able to run long distance for some years because of tightness in lower legs (diagnosed as chronic compartment syndrome) and sciatica.  Today I did 17.5 miles @15:23 with 1st mile @13:45, and yes, its a very long time, but I'm hopeful that I can do another 9!  The last time I was able to go this far was in 2007.  My HR was crazy though, I averaged 130, with max 158.  I just wanted to get the distance in.  I'll slow down on the other days.  I average around 10 hours per week but I don't mind, it's me time.

       If you come to the Maffetone Method injured, having regresses, and maybe overtrained, Dr. Phil says it's important that you keep a ceiling. In interviews he's talked about how important it is, as he would see regression or no improvement in people who were letting the heart rate go over too often. It's not a problem so much if you're in good shape and healthy.  He also suggests not adding stress. He's really big about not getting stressed out if you can help it.  If it does stress you out trying to keep at MAF, use a lower HR. Only get to the ceiling near the end of your run. Or don't go near it at all.

       

      yeah but my point was you can still run at MAF and not stress too much about if you go over the ceiling by 4 beats for 10 seconds.

         Thanks for your response Cmon2.   Yes, I'm 49.  The weather is considerably hotter now in the upper 80's in FL.  My max HR is 185 based on last 5k in march which was 24:20.   Not sure what causes the drift, probably jogging too fast in between my jog/walk.  It shoots up rather quickly, I.e., i'll stop when I see it at 132, and it continues to climb for a bit before it comes down.  Now, I admit I am loading up more on the miles with this training because it allows me to run longer and I have a deep desire to run another marathon so i'm doing what I used to do back 8-10 years ago, albeit a lot slower since there doesn't seem to be any guidelines.   Prior to doing MAF, I hadn't been able to run long distance for some years because of tightness in lower legs (diagnosed as chronic compartment syndrome) and sciatica.  Today I did 17.5 miles @15:23 with 1st mile @13:45, and yes, its a very long time, but I'm hopeful that I can do another 9!  The last time I was able to go this far was in 2007.  My HR was crazy though, I averaged 130, with max 158.  I just wanted to get the distance in.  I'll slow down on the other days.  I average around 10 hours per week but I don't mind, it's me time.

         

        I don't know how long you're over 131, e.g. how many minutes total in an hour run? can your HRM calculate that for you?

         

        hmm, 24:20 5K, 15mpm is a bit too slow for that in general. but maybe it's just the heat... when will the weather get cooler there? Smile

         

        woah 4.5 hour run for 17.5miles? how often do you go that long? if you're preparing for a marathon, I would say it's best done only once in 2 or 3 weeks. and I suggested decreasing training time because it could very well be that "less is more" in terms of improvement.

        itake8ez


           

          I don't know how long you're over 131, e.g. how many minutes total in an hour run? can your HRM calculate that for you?

           

          hmm, 24:20 5K, 15mpm is a bit too slow for that in general. but maybe it's just the heat... when will the weather get cooler there? Smile

           

          woah 4.5 hour run for 17.5miles? how often do you go that long? if you're preparing for a marathon, I would say it's best done only once in 2 or 3 weeks. and I suggested decreasing training time because it could very well be that "less is more" in terms of improvement.

           

          My guess is I was at or above 131 20% - 25% of the time for this particular run, usually its much less than this, but if I had used 126 as my ceiling then it would've taken me another 1/2 hour.  And 15 mpm is way too slow even with the heat.  I think my pace will pick up some when the weather cools off, but first mile was13:45 and last mile was 17:30 and my HR was going crazy more towards the end.  BTW, this was my first time going this long in 5 years, so I was actually happy about being able to do the distance and believe it or not, I'm not that sore today, not sure if I can do another long run next week, i'll see how I feel, but I think every 3 weeks is too far apart to be beneficial to train for a marathon.  I hear what you're saying about "less is more" but less what?  Less time?  Less miles?  If so, how much less?  How do you train for a marathon?

            I haven't checked in on this forum for a long time, but I'm still running on Low HR.

             

            My MAF test-results are far from impressive, but for me, the improvement I can see really IS impressive.  (Short question: this thread is called 'maFF test', but I thought it was 'maf' from Maximal Aerobic Functioning, not from 'Maffeton'?)

             

            I started running when I was 44 (2006), and after I 'overtrained' in the summer of 2011 I started running on Low HR in January 2012.

            My first MAF-test in February 2012 was really slow...

             

            km 1: 11:34 min/km

            km 2: 12:02

            km 3: 12:44

             

            My most recent MAF-test

            km 1: 7:46 min/km

            km 2: 8:20

            km 3: 8:53

            km 4: 9:12

            So, today my slowest km is still 2 min/km faster than my fastest 18 months ago...

            Running in Belgium
            Ann

             

             

             

            jimmyb


              Welcome back, Ann!

               

              That's awesome improvement.

              Keep going!

              --JimmyCool

              Log    PRs

                Hi, these are my test results after two monts of MAF training.

                 

                On 30/11 I adjusted my MAF hr from 140 to 144 as per my last treadmill test, since them Im averaging around 142-143 bpm in each run. This small change makes me run more comfortable and forget of my watch hr alarm.

                 

                During these two months I have had many slow and demoralizing days  and I  had to learn  how to accept it and focus in running relaxed and more relaxed   , but when I look to the big  picture Im quite satisfied with the overall progress, not just only numbers, also I feel more healthy and each day I enjoy more with this training. I'm planning to keep with it another month before making some small changes. Keep you posted.

                 

                Regards

                jimmyb


                  Demoralizing days at those paces? Then, at my current paces, I should be lying in bed in dirty sweatpants, eating pound blocks of cheddar cheese, and crying my eyes out while watching Leaving Las Vegas over and over and over.

                  Keep going, you're doing awesome.

                   

                  Hi, these are my test results after two monts of MAF training.

                   

                  On 30/11 I adjusted my MAF hr from 140 to 144 as per my last treadmill test, since them Im averaging around 142-143 bpm in each run. This small change makes me run more comfortable and forget of my watch hr alarm.

                   

                  During these two months I have had many slow and demoralizing days  and I  had to learn  how to accept it and focus in running relaxed and more relaxed   , but when I look to the big  picture Im quite satisfied with the overall progress, not just only numbers, also I feel more healthy and each day I enjoy more with this training. I'm planning to keep with it another month before making some small changes. Keep you posted.

                   

                  Regards

                  Log    PRs

                    I haven't checked in on this forum for a long time, but I'm still running on Low HR.

                     

                    My MAF test-results are far from impressive, but for me, the improvement I can see really IS impressive.  (Short question: this thread is called 'maFF test', but I thought it was 'maf' from Maximal Aerobic Functioning, not from 'Maffeton'?)

                     

                    wow very nice! are you "itake8ez" too? I guess not, just making sure? Smile

                      Demoralizing days at those paces? Then, at my current paces, I should be lying in bed in dirty sweatpants, eating pound blocks of cheddar cheese, and crying my eyes out while watching Leaving Las Vegas over and over and over.

                      Keep going, you're doing awesome.

                       

                       

                      lol, your sense of humour Smile

                       

                      btw, I admire your patience.

                       

                      I would have gone mad a long time ago with your schedule. Smile

                       

                      also... currently I feel it's sooo demoralizing if I were to run a pace outside 9:20min/mile Surprised  I used to be happy with 11min/mile at low HR.

                       

                      really very subjective.


                      Consistently Slow

                        According to the the report search my last maff test was 7/8/12. Two mile W/U. Walked the 1st mile of the W/U.MAFF 122

                        Date: 2/16/2014 1:41 PM
                        Type: MAFF TEST
                        Distance: 5.01 miles
                        Duration: 1:15:26.46
                        Pace: 15:04 / mile
                        Equipment: GT-2170 (ROYAL BLUE)
                        Weight: 157.0 lb
                        Heart Rate: Average: 121 / Max: 134
                        Weather: 60° F
                        Statistics: Calories: 595

                         

                        Splits (GPS Interval)
                         TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                        1 Interval 1 mi 14:22.18 14:22.18 14:23 119 126  
                        2 Interval 1 mi 15:01.47 29:23.65 15:02 121 123  
                        3 Interval 1 mi 15:04.32 44:27.97 15:05 121 125  
                        4 Interval 1 mi 15:23.07 59:51.04 15:24 121 124  
                        5 Interval 1 mi 15:30.43 1:15:21.47 15:31 121 134  
                        6 Interval 0.01 mi 0:04.99 1:15:26.46 8:19 120 120  

                        Comments

                        Run until the trail runs out.

                        2014***1500 miles

                        50 miler 13:26:18

                        Race Less Train More

                         

                        Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                        "The Marble in The Groove"

                         

                        unsolicited chatter

                        http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                        Consistently Slow

                          A

                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             

                           

                          Splits (GPS Interval)
                           TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                          1 Interval 1 mi 14:22.18 14:22.18 14:23 119 126  
                          2 Interval 1 mi 15:01.47 29:23.65 15:02 121 123  
                          3 Interval 1 mi 15:04.32 44:27.97 15:05 121 125  
                          4 Interval 1 mi 15:23.07 59:51.04 15:24 121 124  
                          5 Interval 1 mi 15:30.43 1:15:21.47 15:31 121 134  
                          6 Interval 0.01 mi 0:04.99 1:15:26.46 8:19 120 120  

                          Comments

                           

                          TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                          1 Interval 1 mi 12:56.59 12:56.59 12:57 120 125  
                          2 Interval 1 mi 13:30.60 26:27.19 13:31 121 126  
                          3 Interval 1 mi 13:50.51 40:17.70 13:51 121 125  
                          4 Interval 1 mi 14:31.16 54:48.86 14:32 120 126  
                          5 Interval 1 mi 14:22.37 1:09:11.23 14:23 120 124  
                          6 Interval 0.01 mi 0:04.75 1:09:15.98 7:55 122 122  

                          1st mile 14:22 (2/1/14)60F

                          1st mile 12:56 (4/5/14)62F

                          I keep thinking man how much have I slowed down. mile 5 today was has fast as the 1 mile on 2/1. YES! The increase in mileage has help. Now I need to stay closer to MAFF HR.

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                          2014***1500 miles

                          50 miler 13:26:18

                          Race Less Train More

                           

                          Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                          "The Marble in The Groove"

                           

                          unsolicited chatter

                          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                            I don't actually do formal MAF tests but I do run my recovery runs at a HR that happens to be close to "180-age" HR.

                             

                            so I can kind of track it.

                             

                            my best such pace so far is 8:20 for a 4.6 mile long run Smile 27th February this year.

                             

                            if I was to add 5 bpm for improvement, it would be around 8min/mile but I don't usually train at that HR range so just an estimate. (it's no longer recovery HR and I don't do strictly LHR training right now so that +5bpm HR range doesn't fit in the schedule)

                               

                              6 months Recap

                              Still improving,  since March I have introduced some high hr training once per week and started racing.

                              jimmyb


                                 

                                6 months Recap

                                Still improving,  since March I have introduced some high hr training once per week and started racing.

                                 

                                Wow, 21% faster in the first mile. Nice improvement. The sweet 9's.

                                Log    PRs